can we increase the flamethrower range?

[Zolvolt]

8 yalms for an stand-still aoe is too short

[Valence]

I think this skill has a lot more immediate problems than its range, which I'm pretty fine with tbh, just need to position correctly.

I'd like for starters that they made it useful. Right now it's barely a gain against the AoE rotation, has no interaction with the kit, and is actually counterproductive to gameplay since it doesn't generate heat or anything. It's a gimmick at best.

[Mithron]

I think this skill has a lot more immediate problems than its range, which I'm pretty fine with tbh, just need to position correctly.

I'd like for starters that they made it useful. Right now it's barely a gain against the AoE rotation, has no interaction with the kit, and is actually counterproductive to gameplay since it doesn't generate heat or anything. It's a gimmick at best.

It is a good DPS gain in AoE but I agree it needs to be better. However, increasing it's range would help a ton as OP says it's slightly too short especially in the latest dungeon with the mobs' giant AoEs.

[Valence]

It is a good DPS gain in AoE but I agree it needs to be better. However, increasing it's range would help a ton as OP says it's slightly too short especially in the latest dungeon with the mobs' giant AoEs.

I haven't rechecked the actual simulations and data in EW, but in ShB it used to be barely a gain, and mostly on low level amounts of enemies (aka 2 enemies especially). It barely edged out the normal AoE rotation, and I already had a problem with it for reason i'll talk below. Those days in EW with the insane increase in heat generation due to the introduction of scattergun, which also has a bit more potency than spread shot as well, and nothing having changed on the flamethrower side, I somehow doubt that it's still even able to compete, but maybe I missed something. Even on two targets compared to the single target rotation, with the queen buffs and new finisher in EW? Eeeeeh...

The main problem with it is that not only it's a 99% dungeon skill for mob pack AoE, but it's also a skill conflicting with the rest of the kit not only because it meshes badly with the other skills, but also because in said dungeons, especially on the mob packs just before a boss (so one out of two), actually not generating heat lowers the resources you have stored in gauges when starting the boss on solo target just after. I feel that's also a noticeable problem, because MCH gauges are pretty strong stored damage potential.

[wereotter]

It is a good DPS gain in AoE but I agree it needs to be better. However, increasing it's range would help a ton as OP says it's slightly too short especially in the latest dungeon with the mobs' giant AoEs.

Someone feel free to point out if I'm wrong here... but I'm pretty sure flamethrower is still a DPS loss to use.

In the 10 seconds of Flamethrower you'd miss out on:
4 uses of Scattergun 150 potency each for a total of 600
40 heat gauge, and comparing the DPS per point of heat to Auto Crossbow, that's 560 DPS
Flamethrower stops your auto attacks, which is minimal loss during AOE pulls, but still 4 auto attacks at approximately 50 potency a piece for 200 potency

This brings the total DPS that would be done during the normal skill usage to 1,360

I believe Flamethrower ticks every second, and it hits for 80 potency per hit, bringing the potency total to 880 if I'm right. (10 ticks plus one on hit)

Comparing the two, even if you don't count the potency on the auto attacks, or even if I have the potency wrong (I'm going off someone else's estimate here) it's still 40 potency more to not use Flamethrower at all. So I do think Valence is correct that range isn't the only thing at issue with Flamethrower, and a simple heat generation while you use it would solve that... or just increased potency so it doesn't matter you're not generating heat.

[Valence]

Someone feel free to point out if I'm wrong here... but I'm pretty sure flamethrower is still a DPS loss to use.

In the 10 seconds of Flamethrower you'd miss out on:
4 uses of Spread Shot 140 potency each for a total of 560
20 heat gauge, and comparing the DPS per point of heat to Auto Crossbow, that's 280 DPS
Flamethrower stops your auto attacks, which is minimal loss during AOE pulls, but still 4 auto attacks at approximately 50 potency a piece for 200 potency

This brings the total DPS that would be done during the normal skill usage to 1,040

I believe Flamethrower ticks every second, and it hits for 80 potency per hit, bringing the potency total to 800 if I'm right.

Comparing the two, even if you don't count the potency on the auto attacks, or even if I have the potency wrong (I'm going off someone else's estimate here) it's still 40 potency more to not use Flamethrower at all. So I do think Valence is correct that range isn't the only thing at issue with Flamethrower, and a simple heat generation while you use it would solve that... or just increased potency so it doesn't matter you're not generating heat.

It's more complicated than this to be modeled, because one needs to take into account a longer curve of using the actual AoE normal rotation of scattergun then hypercharge then scattergun, etc, by taking into account bioblaster segmentation in between that adds some constraints to it all (and potentially Air Anchor at 3 or 4 targets), versus a rotation using flamethrower then scattergun then hypercharge etc until you loop back to flamethrower.

You end up with longer curves of damage that can also vary depending on the amount of targets. The FT rotation tends to edge out especially in the first 10 seconds for obvious reasons, then peter out until 60s later. During ShB both curves were almost identical, FT rotation edging out by an inch, especially over 2 targets. No idea for EW, I wasn't the author of that calculator, but as said above I don't see how it can even still win out considering that everything else has been buffed for EW but FT (unless they cheated when they lowered physical damage potencies to align them on magical and didn't lower FT as much as it should have, which I doubt).

Also, Flamethrower works like a ground dot but with 1s ticks, so it will tick for a total of 11 ticks (1 tick at activation, then 10s of 10 ticks).

[wereotter]

It's more complicated than this to be modeled, because one needs to take into account a longer curve of using the actual AoE normal rotation of scattergun then hypercharge then scattergun, etc, by taking into account bioblaster segmentation in between that adds some constraints to it all (and potentially Air Anchor at 3 or 4 targets), versus a rotation using flamethrower then scattergun then hypercharge etc until you loop back to flamethrower.

You end up with longer curves of damage that can also vary depending on the amount of targets. The FT rotation tends to edge out especially in the first 10 seconds for obvious reasons, then peter out until 60s later. During ShB both curves were almost identical, FT rotation edging out by an inch, especially over 2 targets. No idea for EW, I wasn't the author of that calculator, but as said above I don't see how it can even still win out considering that everything else has been buffed for EW but FT (unless they cheated when they lowered physical damage potencies to align them on magical and didn't lower FT as much as it should have, which I doubt).

oops I'll edit my post, but that even if Flamethrower gets 11 ticks, there's also another issue where I was going off Spread Shot instead of Scattergun but even then that means that Flamethrower is doing a total potency of 880 while with the additional potency and heat from Scattergun over what I calculated thats still 1320 potency from just using your normal skills.

I guess I'm not seeing how in what you laid out, though, where you're actually getting more damage from using flamethrower when you're actually losing 440 potency if the source I found was correct about the potency on auto attacks, or 240 if you're not counting auto attacks at all.

Also, Flamethrower works like a ground dot but with 1s ticks, so it will tick for a total of 11 ticks (1 tick at activation, then 10s of 10 ticks).

Also off topic but wanted to do a correction here... not sure about Salted Earth, but Doton doesn't tick every second, it's still every 3 seconds. Important to know since I've seen several ninjas thinking that Doton does more damage than Raiton. Slipstream is every 3 seconds as well.

[Arohk]

since it doesn't generate heat or anything. It's a gimmick at best.

Flamethrower not generating Heat is indeed a very weird thing lol. , should give you 5 heat every tick.

[Voidedge_Ragna]

Flamethrower is the "ill have a cookie now" button during an dungeon pull. Its crazy to me that the only heat related skill in the kit does not produce hit.

[Reimmi]

The FLAMEthrower doesn't generate heat, either