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  1. #1
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,881
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by CelestiCer View Post
    This... idiotic concept... of suggesting to remove something to make room for something better in the foreseeable future? is imbecilic.
    Putting aside that Taranok was referring specifically to combos like that of modern DRK and PLD (no more CD-less Goring Blade) and had already suggested the exact same kinds of consolidations that you later did...
    Quote Originally Posted by Taranok View Post
    getting rid of redundant buttons like Shoha/Shoha 2, Foul/Xenoglossy. Basically mutually exclusive skills that have a single target and AoE version of what is otherwise an identical skill. But button bloat is another problem unto itself.
    ...you can still have button-mobile gameplay even in consolidated combos... if we just stopped fetishizing (clear/obvious/forcibly) non-choices as if they were actual depth.

    For instance, to take an old concept floating around from Stormblood, imagine if Dragoon simply had 3 buttons around which to "combo" in any of varying paths. At any given GCD step, until you complete the combo, you have access to...
    A. a Surge skill,
    B. a Flurry skill,
    C. and a Stream skill.

    First GCD / "Opener":
    A - True Thrust (+% Potency Bonus, lingering for the whole combo or fixed duration)
    B - Impulse Drive (+Potency per hit, flat, lingering for the whole combo or fixed duration)
    C - Doom Spike (+Applies flat Armor reduction)

    Second GCD / "Bridge":
    A - Vorpal Thrust (Has bonus Suppression; multi-hits)
    B - Disembowel (Has Armor reduction)
    C - Sonic Thrust (Separate hits, therefore scaling well with flat potency bonuses)

    Third GCD / "Finisher":
    A - Full Thrust (Just a single big damn hit)
    B - Chaos Thrust (DoT, with individual ticks therefore scaling about evenly with % or flat bonuses, in total; multi-hits)
    C - [Coerthan Torment] (Magic damage, not affected by Armor)

    Wheeling Thrust [two-strikes, the latter being a radial AoE] and Fang and Claw [now two strikes, with short, narrow linear AoEs with falloff] could then be held and would duplicate a portion of the prior finisher (CT duration stacking up to 30s). WT's the AoE portion of which then scales better with flat potency increases after CT.

    Yes, Full Thrust will scale best off True Thrust and Sonic Thrust better off Impulse or Doom Spike, such that you ultimately just have 5-6 combos with best in-practice use cases, especially in sustained rotation... but that's still a lot better than 6 out of 7 GCD skills being effectively greyed out for 9 out of 10 GCDs in single-target combat.

    And you could build off that base, too, to eventually have the individual skills influence what skills follow for fully conditional branching paths instead of paths based on synergies, etc., etc.
    __________

    Having fewer buttons doesn't have to mean any significant amount less button-movement, and very often forces greater total nuance. Of course, we wouldn't have ended up in a situation where consolidation would even look feasible if the devs hadn't mistaken button count (and its non-choice bloat tools like AoE|ST pairs) for our actual moment-to-moment gameplay or decision-making.

    While I don't think there's any added gameplay value to be had in mere XIVCombo or PvP-style consolidation (though I wouldn't begrudge that becoming an option just for QoL, given slight accordant adjustments to those using redundant keys for parity), a rework of the game's "combos" (which are... not remotely combinations, but instead merely inflexible multi-button sequences for singular actions, akin to more constrained/bloated mudras) seems a very lucrative design space.
    (2)
    Last edited by Shurrikhan; 05-31-2023 at 08:15 AM.