Please stop inserting unbranching combos in new jobs

[Shurrikhan]

What do you guys think you will get:

What will you really get:

If left to just the devs in a sort of "spacemaking" attempt instead of an explicitly "depth-increasing" one... I'd agree.

I feel like for that reason we should probably be asking to make every combo have complexity worthy of its button-count, rather than a button-count befitting its (lack of) complexity. I'll admit, though, that those two things sound a lot alike, especially to anyone who's only ever played with an XIV idea of "combos" in an MMO or MMO-adjacent setting.

Our GCD rotations really are currently the most wasteful, lackluster (especially, relative to what more they could easily support) part of job design at the moment, though.

We absolutely should be looking to improve upon (not merely simplify) them, but that does require not putting on a pedestal what they are now on the basis of what they could be and instead actually trying to reach those more lucrative prospects.

[Deo14]

If left to just the devs in a sort of "spacemaking" attempt instead of an explicitly "depth-increasing" one... I'd agree.

I feel like for that reason we should probably be asking to make every combo have complexity worthy of its button-count, rather than a button-count befitting its (lack of) complexity. I'll admit, though, that those two things sound a lot alike, especially to anyone who's only ever played with an XIV idea of "combos" in an MMO or MMO-adjacent setting.

Our GCD rotations really are currently the most wasteful, lackluster (especially, relative to what more they could easily support) part of job design at the moment, though.

We absolutely should be looking to improve upon (not merely simplify) them, but that does require not putting on a pedestal what they are now on the basis of what they could be and instead actually trying to reach those more lucrative prospects.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, but it just feels hopeless to ask them to do anything that isn't dumbing down jobs even more. Hell, you don't even need to ask them, they'll do it anyways. But yeah, I just don't have much faith left in job design in this game. They can't even bring back one fucking skill that we've been asking for nearly 1.5 year. If all the Kaiten uproar with 100s of threads just on EN OF didn't work, nothing else will. Last solution is manufacturing some drama, since they started doing some QoL stuff after all the plugin drama last year.

[Shurrikhan]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, but it just feels hopeless to ask them to do anything that isn't dumbing down jobs even more. Hell, you don't even need to ask them, they'll do it anyways. But yeah, I just don't have much faith left in job design in this game. They can't even bring back one fucking skill that we've been asking for nearly 1.5 year. If all the Kaiten uproar with 100s of threads just on EN OF didn't work, nothing else will. Last solution is manufacturing some drama, since they started doing some QoL stuff after all the plugin drama last year.

I get that. Sadly, the only solutions the devs have historically seemed willing to take up are those that let them reduce their work:

2.0 WAR utterly lacks parity? Homogenize it.
4.0 DRK is painfully underpowered? Homogenize it.
5.0 NIN is made hectic because of the inability to queue mudras correctly? Don't fix queuing, but instead just turn all mudras into GCDs and remove yet another NIN combo so they don't get uppity again (they did say it was "too hectic" after all).
6.0 MCH is still complaining about the game's doubly punishing ping for no discernible reason? Don't deal with that; just change Hypercharge into stacks to further degrade SkS.
6.0 PLD falls fall short in overall capacity, especially aDPS? Don't actually buff them or do anything with Sword Oath to accelerate their opener as is; just replace their DoT combo with a 60s GCD-CD and merge their CDs.


But at the same time, if we limit even our suggestions to that kind of jadedness... what possible hope does the game have?

[Raikai]

Just condensing every combo in a vacuum wouldn't really achiveve a lot, to be honest. Maybe in the case of a really button bloated job.

What I wanted are condensed combos with something extra behind it, like for example, interactivity with other aspects of the toolkit based on the stage that you're at, or multiple 1 button combos that change another big action depending on the stage you left them at. I see is that as an opportunity to forge interesting job mechanics that would require multiple vacant keys, or else... What we'll get in 7.0 is merely yet another 120s action to align with the meta, and maybe a personal utility here and there.

So I agree with condensing combos like PVP, but only if there's something interesting gained behind that change, because (I mentioned this on other threads) truthfully the 1-2-3 combos we have are just a test of our finger reflexes and attention span rather than our capacity to think.

[ForsakenRoe]

Last solution is manufacturing some drama, since they started doing some QoL stuff after all the plugin drama last year.

Every big streamer starts openly using a clientside mod that changes one of their SAM animations back to Kaiten (probably Ikishoten), Kaiten returns in very next patch