Please stop inserting unbranching combos in new jobs

[Taranok]

The MSQ duties use single button combos because you can't expect every player who plays through the MSQ to know how to play every single job so that they can finish the story. For real jobs, the devs expect players to know enough basics not to press buttons out of order.

True or not, 3-step combos that don't branch could, and should, be reduced to 1 button if for no other reason than condensing bar space. If they want classes to have as many superfluous buttons as SAM or BLM have, nevermind AST or PLD, they need to condense redundant buttons down, and the best place is just to make 3-step combos 1 button. For most classes it wouldn't even make it harder or easier to play, it's just about not having useless buttons.

After that it's mostly about getting rid of redundant buttons like Shoha/Shoha 2, Foul/Xenoglossy. Basically mutually exclusive skills that have a single target and AoE version of what is otherwise an identical skill. But button bloat is another problem unto itself.

[CelestiCer]

True or not, 3-step combos that don't branch could, and should, be reduced to 1 button if for no other reason than condensing bar space. If they want classes to have as many superfluous buttons as SAM or BLM have, nevermind AST or PLD, they need to condense redundant buttons down, and the best place is just to make 3-step combos 1 button. For most classes it wouldn't even make it harder or easier to play, it's just about not having useless buttons.

Hard Disagree here. Specially when it comes to a Job " I play " that you don't.

First buttons to save up for SAM would be...

• Fusing Shoha I and Shoha II with fall off damage
• Fusing Guren and Senei with fall off damage
• Ikishoten turning into Ogi Namikiri

This saves 3 buttons before we ever consider Combo Button compression ( And what should have taken prio over Kaiten removal ) as this changes nothing about the difficulty/execution of our rotation. Leave everything else alone until they present me something better to replace whatever anyone is suggesting to remove.

This... idiotic concept... of suggesting to remove something to make room for something better in the foreseeable future? is imbecilic. My Kaiten got deleted April 12th, 2022 patch 6.1... for over a year replaced with " Nothing better ". Am I to expect any better when my Combo buttons get reduced to a singular button? Wait another year or two cause we made room for something new? that's rich.

The way I define " Button Bloat ", is when I require macro's or special equipment to play a class or job. Even before Kaiten removal? I had zero issues with SAM execution. Although SAM's non-existing Button Bloat issue, is another topic.

[Taranok]

Hard Disagree here. Specially when it comes to a Job " I play " that you don't.

First buttons to save up for SAM would be...

• Fusing Shoha I and Shoha II with fall off damage
• Fusing Guren and Senei with fall off damage
• Ikishoten turning into Ogi Namikiri

This saves 3 buttons before we ever consider Combo Button compression ( And what should have taken prio over Kaiten removal ) as this changes nothing about the difficulty/execution of our rotation. Leave everything else alone until they present me something better to replace whatever anyone is suggesting to remove.

This... idiotic concept... of suggesting to remove something to make room for something better in the foreseeable future? is imbecilic. My Kaiten got deleted April 12th, 2022 patch 6.1... for over a year replaced with " Nothing better ". Am I to expect any better when my Combo buttons get reduced to a singular button? Wait another year or two cause we made room for something new? that's rich.

The way I define " Button Bloat ", is when I require macro's or special equipment to play a class or job. Even before Kaiten removal? I had zero issues with SAM execution. Although SAM's non-existing Button Bloat issue, is another topic.

Samurai has branching combos. Why the hell are you responding to me? I was referring to Warrior, DRK, GNB, PLD, RPR. SAM has 3 separate branched combos, of course they shouldn't be 1 button.

Also don't forget combining Ikishoten with Guren. You have 4 damned 2 minute cooldowns that are used simultaneously under almost all scenarios. You can combine those 6 buttons into 2 and lose absolutely nothing of value by just having ikishoten get merged with Guren, which was merged with Senei, which turns into Ogi Namakure. 4 buttons for the cost of 1 oGCD.

[fulminating]

Samurai has branching combos. Why the hell are you responding to me? I was referring to Warrior, DRK, GNB, PLD, RPR. SAM has 3 separate branched combos, of course they shouldn't be 1 button.
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Warrior has branching combos though?

[Payadopa]

PvP-esque combos are only a matter of time. Pressing 1 to 3 isn't complex. It's kinda sad that so much has been lost that people genuinely think that pruning that aspect would break the camel's back. That already happened years ago. lol

[Deo14]

Warrior has branching combos though?

PLD had that too just a few months ago when he still got the balls and wasn't a Tesco value Gunbreaker.

It's kinda sad that so much has been lost that people genuinely think that pruning that aspect would break the camel's back. That already happened years ago. lol

Camel is dead, we're just trying to delay the camel's burial.

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One of many problems with auto combo is that it's not even applicable to everyone. SAM could stay the same, but now RPR for example, who is already pretty barebones, has even less skills. No, they will not add more skills. Only time when they actually add something is at expansion release (2 skills usually) and occasionally they recycle old skill (Bulwark). They will not add anything to compensate for it.

So please, if someone wants auto combo, just download XIVCombo and leave others alone. It takes like 5 minutes to get plugins (according to my mum's friend's goldfish). Jobs are primitive enough, positionals and 1-2-3 are one of the last mechanics jobs have, asside from higher end optimalizations.

Also, if you're unironically using XIVCombo because of the infamous phrase "button bloat", consider checking your keybinds. There is no way that someone without physical handicap is unable to use keybinds for some ~30 buttons, half of which is situational/infrequent. Leveling and MSQ progression is super slow, no way that you can't get used to it after 300-500 hours. And if you really can't, then that's a you problem.

[Valence]

To be more clear on what I meant, is that my particular problem is with non branching combos. This means that:

1) Combos that are always 1-2-3 are bland and as a design could be combined into one pvp button. I don't mind if they do this if for once we get something in return, like interesting other buttons and mechanics that prove more intricate than this baby sequence.
2) Combos that still branch are fine by me. I never liked combos much, but I don't hate those and they at least provide choice and decisions to make.

[Lyth]

This argument can be extended just as easily to branching combos as well. There's no real difference between '123' and '124'. If they do it, it's likely going to happen to all jobs at the same time.

I personally think that it's a bad idea, and there will inevitably be a significant amount of backlash against it. If you thought the outrage over Kaiten was overwhelming, this would be even bigger.

[Valence]

No, it cannot be extended to branching combos. You can definitely combine some buttons, but you still have a choice of "path" to make depending on the branch you need to use at any given time, which the unbranching ones do not offer. This is what prompted that post originally.

[Jokerz_93]

Soooo, if I’m correct,

DRk combos would be like: 111 111 111. 2 when you have to bloodspiller/quietus.
WAR would be 112 111 111 111 112. 3 when you have to Fell cleave and 4 when you have to Primal Rend.
PLD would be 111 222 4 111 222 4 111 222 4 333 (where 2 is Ato, 4 HS, 3 Confiteor combo)
GNB would be 111 2(5)2(5)2(5) (2(5) Continuation combo)

DRG would be 11111 22222
MCH would be 111 111 1111
And so on…

Really I’m not getting the point how condensing a simple 123 into a 111 could be better.
I main the last most busy jobs left in the game (DRK/GNB DRG AST) and there isn’t a real “button bloat” problem, just a skill issues problem (or ping issues that would be more understandable tbh).
If there are more OGCDs/GCDs in the game, it could be a better thing for sure but now? Nah, I don’t think it’s a good idea with these skills we have now.
Just my opinion tho.