Samurai LB is still BS

[doomballoon]

There are like 4 people here with the -correct- takes. Hex, myself, tira, and seto. I'm not going to argue line by line anymore. I'm tired and bad at arguing within my 'vacuum', but know that we're giving the players who just finished CCRC giggle-fits in discord.
Valence and Llynethil, you are outright pushing misinformation which can gatekeep new players from reaching higher placement in crystal credit matches. On an easy climb to crystal job like MCH, that's just going to make the inevitable skill leap even harder at high level. The 'angry' MCH that can't climb after peaking their rank is a meme because they don't understand how great each of their tools can be. Especially turret. MCH actually needs a nerf. Looking at you, Drill.

I came out swinging sounding hostile; that's my bad and I'll own up to it since I don't often post. But when your best experience is as a forum mentor/casual crystal who can't match the actual pvp vets who come out of the woodwork when they see false postings like these, the newer players looking to see how balanced pvp is based on discussion are going to see your post counts and assume the wrong takes are the valid ones. SAM LB is not strong. It is not weak either, but I'd much rather have a MNK, DRG, or even RPR on my team than a SAM pretty much every time. This is from someone who has played Sam to t100 every season. Our job gets harder as the skill pool grows (like you correctly stated, Valence) but it's so poorly understood by casual players that seeing people clamor that it's too hard to survive its LB just makes me wanna puke. Its real threat is its on-demand burst in meikyo-midare/double-ogi and widely used stun/bind moves. Other jobs do these better, but Samurai at least can put out consistent damage and crowd control this way.

To reiterate the basic points here which we were initially arguing about. Dying to Sam LB's mechanic (not raw damage) requires the Sam to press a button, wait to be hit, select the target, press LB and self stun for 2 seconds while it snapshots and pray not to be bursted down.
Surviving Sam LB for most jobs, including MCH, has a single action cost if you aren't just throwing out cleaves at half health without paying attention. -_-

So to address the thread and to stay on topic "Samurai LB is still BS" - yes it is. For the Sam.

PS: If any of you actually want to improve your pvp experience and get your shiny weapons and easy t100 done, go onto discord with the players you see hosting pvp events and ask questions there. These SE hosted pvp forum posts are the butt of so many jokes for the actual competitive community. I am by no means the final word on player skill in any job, and the players there humble me daily.

[Llynethil]

also, have you tried not getting debuffed? because turret not proccing chiten actually IS the point. as a machinist you are in a position where you have a skill that can deal damage and debuff your enemy/buff your team or self and then be able to sit there and not hit the SAM until their chiten wears off. if the idea of not hitting gcds makes you anxious, there are 4 other enemy combatants you could use single-target skills on in the meantime.

Look the first post we were reacting to, it was a list of random shields that prevent the oneshot, the whole point is turret shield does not help when you are ALREADY debuffed and want to not get destroyed by the sam, it shields too late and is too weak anyway to survive, noone is saying in every other situation turret is also bad, it's the specific situation of having hit the chiten and the best way to survive it, CC'ing gives better odds than turret shield.

Yes if you aren't debuffed it's fine to drop the turret, everyone knows this already.

You guys are the ones turning into a completely different argument.

[Chelsee]

It needs to nerf. It is total BS they can instakill you from full health with a single move.

ngl i didnt read the rest of the thread but like just shield lmao just choose to not die lmao its one button lmaooooooo

[Valence]

There are like 4 people here with the -correct- takes. Hex, myself, tira, and seto. I'm not going to argue line by line anymore. I'm tired and bad at arguing within my 'vacuum', but know that we're giving the players who just finished CCRC giggle-fits in discord.
Valence and Llynethil, you are outright pushing misinformation which can gatekeep new players from reaching higher placement in crystal credit matches. On an easy climb to crystal job like MCH, that's just going to make the inevitable skill leap even harder at high level. The 'angry' MCH that can't climb after peaking their rank is a meme because they don't understand how great each of their tools can be. Especially turret. MCH actually needs a nerf. Looking at you, Drill.

I came out swinging sounding hostile; that's my bad and I'll own up to it since I don't often post. But when your best experience is as a forum mentor/casual crystal who can't match the actual pvp vets who come out of the woodwork when they see false postings like these, the newer players looking to see how balanced pvp is based on discussion are going to see your post counts and assume the wrong takes are the valid ones. SAM LB is not strong. It is not weak either, but I'd much rather have a MNK, DRG, or even RPR on my team than a SAM pretty much every time. This is from someone who has played Sam to t100 every season. Our job gets harder as the skill pool grows (like you correctly stated, Valence) but it's so poorly understood by casual players that seeing people clamor that it's too hard to survive its LB just makes me wanna puke. Its real threat is its on-demand burst in meikyo-midare/double-ogi and widely used stun/bind moves. Other jobs do these better, but Samurai at least can put out consistent damage and crowd control this way.

To reiterate the basic points here which we were initially arguing about. Dying to Sam LB's mechanic (not raw damage) requires the Sam to press a button, wait to be hit, select the target, press LB and self stun for 2 seconds while it snapshots and pray not to be bursted down.
Surviving Sam LB for most jobs, including MCH, has a single action cost if you aren't just throwing out cleaves at half health without paying attention. -_-

So to address the thread and to stay on topic "Samurai LB is still BS" - yes it is. For the Sam.

PS: If any of you actually want to improve your pvp experience and get your shiny weapons and easy t100 done, go onto discord with the players you see hosting pvp events and ask questions there. These SE hosted pvp forum posts are the butt of so many jokes for the actual competitive community. I am by no means the final word on player skill in any job, and the players there humble me daily.

I don't know if you're actually reading my posts or if I'm just bad at explaining anything or at english honestly at this point.

Where did I say that Drill is bad, or MCH needs a buff or whatever exactly? Or at you addressing somebody else? It gets really confusing to whom you are responding, but since my name has been dropped... So will try to reiterate it again:
- Yes Drill is nasty, and yes the turret is insane.
- Yes, SAM LB and the whole SAM kit can be a bit underwhelming at high level, or okay-ish at best. Nothing is actually broken there in terms of balance (although it's an absolute headache in FLs, but that's another issue, and that's also the problem of this thread that is an amalgamation of all skill levels, and all modes).
- Yes most MCHs don't understand how to use their tools, it's not an intuitive toolkit to wrap your head around.


What you describe with SAM LB is about surviving it, and I agree with this. I do disagree with how to survive after the hit in most serious games, even if you mitigated it with a turret. If nobody farts in your direction, sure, you'll have time to recuperate/guard. But in essence you mentioned Drill being somewhat busted, and that's essentially a Drill on steroids leaving you at very low HP. One of the main strengths of drill is yes, kill low HP players under Guard, sure, but it's also a way to significantly drop the total HP of a player (under guard especially) that your team is waiting to burst down, and it's very hard to recover from it especially if you get CCed by getting out of Guard (as you do), so with 20k HP less for starters? Yeah, it's potent.

A single action, again, is in a vacuum imo. It has other conditions to fulfill. If you talked about SMN's or RPR's braindead shield, we could be talking, although again, even for RPR it's a single action AND adjusting the shield use and sitting on it waiting for every Chiten to show up, which can prevent or hamper other things (which yes, is kinda mild ngl). That's the kind of considerations I have in mind when I read "just press the button lol". That's why I talked about vacuum statements.

I am also at fault here for being a little too binary in the way I stated things about the turret.

PS: I have already been on the T100, thank you (and amusingly enough, it's easier when there is little population of players, but at the same time makes reaching crystal way more of a hassle due to the competition, so it can depend of seasons). And while I'm definitely interested to see where all the pvp has gone on discord those days after pvpaissa rolled over, I'm also extremely wary of getting back into any of those because in my experience they've been absolute cesspool of ragers, namecalling and whatever made those people tick in Feast when they couldn't stomach a loss due to poor matchmaking, skill differences, and just over-infatuated fragile egos. You speak of repelling newer players, but what all those discords have constantly done on a regular basis was exactly that with an extremely toxic atmosphere, and no matter how they had "moderation" and "server rules". But if you can safely and honestly tell me that it's not the case with pvp discords those days, though, then sure.

[doomballoon]

Call me pleasantly surprised. You're right that this format is just awkward for discussions. Feels like if we agree 50% and disagree 50% then it's a fight.

If your last experience in PvP discords was PvPaissa, that'd be a fair take. That place sucked, and I left it immediately after seeing how it was run. The new 'hub' for pvp activity would objectively be PvP Revival, with around 33k members. Just google it for the public invite. It has its own problems and some of the members will try to push you into joining smaller social servers you wouldn't like where open criticism is fair game.

Love it or hate it, it's also basically REQUIRED to be a member of it these days for the dying ranked queue population of CC. The owner also recently created a bot to help synchronize ranked members to get duty pops. It's not uncommon now for every game above crystal level to need 8+ people aware of discord q sync times. At least in NA, anyway. The EU channels in it are managed a little more loosely from what I hear. They also moderate the server a far cry better than Paissa ever did. It's by no means the only pvp server an enthusiast would need, but it's definitively your best first stop.

[EZGIL]

dying full health to 1 hit KO actions is just straight up goofy.

not that I'm even expecting no goofy shit in this goofy cartoon PVP game.

[ThaCa]

Call me pleasantly surprised. You're right that this format is just awkward for discussions. Feels like if we agree 50% and disagree 50% then it's a fight.

If your last experience in PvP discords was PvPaissa, that'd be a fair take. That place sucked, and I left it immediately after seeing how it was run. The new 'hub' for pvp activity would objectively be PvP Revival, with around 33k members. Just google it for the public invite. It has its own problems and some of the members will try to push you into joining smaller social servers you wouldn't like where open criticism is fair game.

Love it or hate it, it's also basically REQUIRED to be a member of it these days for the dying ranked queue population of CC. The owner also recently created a bot to help synchronize ranked members to get duty pops. It's not uncommon now for every game above crystal level to need 8+ people aware of discord q sync times. At least in NA, anyway. The EU channels in it are managed a little more loosely from what I hear. They also moderate the server a far cry better than Paissa ever did. It's by no means the only pvp server an enthusiast would need, but it's definitively your best first stop.

Doesn't revival require your phone number nowadays? If it does I can understand people not wanting to give it to 3rd parties.

[Eastwall]

It needs to nerf. It is total BS they can instakill you from full health with a single move.

Put a shield on and bait it man. I will activate white shift then use my melee combo on Sam with chiten on purpose to bait the lb. To be honest, bait it with your life is worth it too, so Sam can't lb your entire team. Unless you need GP to activate giving land after the match. (dying in pvp arena sets All gather resources to 0, which is annoying)

[doomballoon]

Doesn't revival require your phone number nowadays? If it does I can understand people not wanting to give it to 3rd parties.

That's not Revival itself. That's a discord prereq for servers that require validated discord accounts and not burners. One of the ways to make it harder to spam fake accounts.

[XiaoShengwu]

One word.

Dragoon.