Samurai LB is still BS

[Valence]

Yeah, but actually not really.

The net code is janky enough where you can attack a SAM who doesn't have chiten up, but if they activate it at the same time and you get unlucky enough with the server tick registering it first, you're SOL. This is even worse for MCH and BRD who have a short cast time on their main attack, which makes it even easier for a SAM to slip in a chiten before an attack even easier. Good luck to anyone that has a moderately higher ping, their chances of falling victim to this sort of thing is even higher.

So this notion that 'you deserve to die' is straight up BS. There are absolutely cases where you can do everything right from your perspective, but still end up triggering Kuzushi.

Can confirm that as a MCH main the times I die to this is usually because either of shitty tab target, unfortunate AoE cleaves (rare on mch), or being screwed by cast times. Although for the latter it's just better to ignore the SAM just a little before their LB is filled just to be sure.

[BaroLlyonesse]

Oh boy, its another one of these threads!

No. You deserve to die everytime you get LB'd by a Samurai. Their toolkit is limited enough as it is. If you can't watch your AOE around a Samurai, Can't keep track of them putting chiten up, or generally fall for their easy bait then you have bought, and paid full price for that OHKO.

Just remember: Every time someone goes "Another one of these threads LOL git gud it's your fault", there was a SAM player who whined and screamed that it was unfair for a MCH to have a ten-step 3% chance to OHKO them, that it wasn't "fun".

[Towa-Musa]

Just remember: Every time someone goes "Another one of these threads LOL git gud it's your fault", there was a SAM player who whined and screamed that it was unfair for a MCH to have a ten-step 3% chance to OHKO them, that it wasn't "fun".

lmao anybody who complains about MCH having the 3% chance to one hit is just mad the mch won the lotto on them.

[Xylira]

lmao anybody who complains about MCH having the 3% chance to one hit is just mad the mch won the lotto on them.

Well, yeah. Suddenly dropping dead purely due to chance with no way to see it coming let alone counter it isn't fun or compelling gameplay.

I actually prefer the new way chainsaw works when playing MCH. It's far more reliably useful and kills with it feel earned, unlike the previous random one shots.

[BaroLlyonesse]

Well, yeah. Suddenly dropping dead purely due to chance with no way to see it coming let alone counter it isn't fun or compelling gameplay.

I actually prefer the new way chainsaw works when playing MCH. It's far more reliably useful and kills with it feel earned, unlike the previous random one shots.

It isn't particularly fun, but neither is not being able to control or predict when a SAM dashes toward you and into your bioblaster moments before they OHKO you. Nor is it fun when a NIN hits you with some assassination because you're the one class that has absolutely zero mobility options. Either of those two scenarios would be better if MCH got some kind of Repelling Shot option, like giving our shotguns some launching recoil. But somehow, those are okay when having that 3% chance is waaaay too overpowered and made them have less fun.

I would be more happy with Chainsaw if they hadn't made it effectively a match for Drill. What they should've done is made it ignore DR when Analysis is up, not give it more damage. Make MCH dangerous. It won't be overpowered because again, it's the end of a ten-step chain with cool-downs, not a one-button instant.

lmao anybody who complains about MCH having the 3% chance to one hit is just mad the mch won the lotto on them.

Kougaon. I remember when the change to MCH nerfed Chainsaw, and that was his argument. An entire "thank god that was so overpowered where it would just happen and kill people but that OHKO from SAM is way overdue and needed to happen." It basically rolled down to "in this chaos of combat, there is something I cannot control, and therefore it is not fair that someone else's action might kill me, and that's not fun for me, and therefore should not be there". I can entirely understand a random PvE skill that makes you lose being unfair, but the idea that you're mad because another player outmaneuvered you to stay alive long enough to roll a 3% to kill you...

[Archeron]

Just remember: Every time someone goes "Another one of these threads LOL git gud it's your fault", there was a SAM player who whined and screamed that it was unfair for a MCH to have a ten-step 3% chance to OHKO them, that it wasn't "fun".

Are you that whiner? Because you sound like someone who would be that whiner. Nobody cares about MCH 3% OHKO. If your team was losing before the 3% OHKO. It doesn't have game shattering consequences when it goes off, and even in CC if you wipe the enemy team, and you were losing before the OHKO went off, you'll likely just go back to losing again when they all respawn in ~10 seconds.

Sam players are busy whining about how unresponsive servers are, and people with Chiten debuff not getting affected by the LB. But I guess you wouldn't know that, you're on the recieving end of their LBs.

[Kansene]

And its a good reason for me to avoid pvp entirely. Because this is a false reason, as mobas already have teached me.

These OHKOs are anoying because you cannot control your teammates. Having a teammate constantly fall for this without being able to realy act against it is a major cause for frustration. Nearly all mobas are trying to avoid OHKOs as much as possible, as its unhealthy for balance as it always means someone has to babysit the bad player, and that often takes a lot of resources away that could be used for your proper teammates. Yet you are forced to, because feeding the enemy is generaly worse.

Not having OHKO is healthier since it gives the bad player a better sense of progression in surviving. When they realize an early retreat means they survive more often, it helps at having them learn. But a OHKO is a binary result: it happens, or it doesnt. There is no middle step to learn any progression. And binary systems like that are generaly just broken.

And this isnt a l2p issue either. As especialy at higher skill levels, these binary OHKO mechanics are deemed unwanted because instead of relying on skill, it becomes a guessing game in timing. To realy measure skill, you want reliable outcomes and not have to deal with something that feels like complete rng. And yes, you can guess moments in which they will use such abilities, but is that realy worth it to waste a cooldown on (which if misguessed gives the enemy a free shot anyway)?

Pretty much nailed it there.
There are people on this forum who are completely and utterly incapable of understanding that thinking a mechanic is badly designed doesn't necessarily mean "SKILL ISSUE LOL I CANT DEAL WITH IT!!1one"
I've probably said it a dozen times already, and I'll keep reiterating:

The SAM LB is not overpowered.
The SAM LB has counterplay.
The SAM LB can be avoided by paying close attention.

However:

The punishment for one millisecond of inattention or one minuscule misclick should not be a guaranteed instant death.

Simple as.

[Remish]

I don't really care if it's a skill issue on my part. The SAM LB is a problem. It's not fun, it's not enjoyable. At the very least, let me use Guard to mitigate some of the damage.

[Valence]

I'd be happier with a buffed SAM LB like advanced earlier by Reinhart above without the oneshot effect. The dash AoE on its own is a unique shape, and the amount of damage it deals on full parties is nothing to scoff at, much like SMN and DRG LB, which are table turning LBs already. DRG has the benefit of doing the spikier damage but is also telegraphed and guardable, while SMN is instant (hard to guard against it unless pure luck). SAM just takes longer to charge, and I think it's okay since it goes through guards anyway.

If the "you're just bad if you get hit by it" crowd is unhappy about that, then I actually pause to wonder why it would be so, since it's so easy not to get hit by it to begin with, which makes it underwhelming or bad by definition right? So they should be happy about such a change with potential buffs (charge time or damage).

[Elfidan]

If they just removed most of the cast timers the majority of SAM wouldn't need their LB to kill people. I get it that it's cool to see this wind up attack, but it doesn't mesh well with fighting people who aren't mobs and move purify etc. Like why do Ogi and Midare need to have a cast timer? Feels weird. Imagine if Wyrmwind Thrust and Heavens' Thrust had cast timers. People would quit playing DRG.