Samurai LB is still BS

[TiraMsu]

How the hell is turret gonna save you from sam lb, you'll be dead before the first pulse even activated, and if somehow you survive then you get hit by one basic attack and are dead, you're better off trying to shotgun or buffed air anchor for the cc and try and los.
Turret is a waste of a gc, better off doing cc to prevent it from going out, or throw a drill or something out so he can be easily bursted by the surviving teammates.

The whole point of this thread was surviving SAM lb, not delaying it. And off of that idea is the concept of baiting SAM lb, which is super high value if you can do that and survive. Removing SAM lb instead of just delaying it by ko'ing the player (only to have that player respawn with lb) takes a lot of pressure off of you and your teammates and can be game-changing in higher-level play. Not to mention the fact that making you/teammates survive SAM lb makes it so that instead of having the sam lb be a one-shot skill, it becomes a skill that requires follow-up (and SAM lb has animation lock).

TURRET DOES NOT PROC CHITEN'S DEBUFF.

Putting down turret is NEVER a waste of a gcd, unless your turret placement is bad. Players should be using turret on cooldown because of the sheer amount of value both you and your teammates get out of it. If your ability as a Machinist is hampered by taking that 1 gcd to use a skill that has good personal and team benefit, then that speaks more to player ability than anything else.

[Valence]

Oh me, oh my, would you look at this...
Ways to survive SAM LB in PVP (Assuming you're at Max HP)

Tanks:
PLD - Shelltron or Hallowed (12k potency shield / Immunity)
WAR - Bloodwhetting (10% HP shield)
GNB - Tank Junction Powder Combo (15k potency shield)
DRK - Blackest Night or Eventide (8k potency shield / Immunity)

Melee:
NIN - Huton (16k potency shield)
MNK - Thunderclap (6k potency shield)
SAM - Ogi Namikiri or Kaeshi: Namikiri (8k potency shield on 2 target hits for both hits)
DRG - Sky Shatter (24k potency shield)
RPR - Crest (12k potency shield)

Ranged:
MCH - Bishop Turret (6k potency shield)
BRD - dead; Bind and pray
DNC - Honing Ovation (5k potency shield at max stacks)

Magic:
BLM - Burst (16k potency shield)
RDM - White Shift Melee Combo (18k potency shield)
SMN - Radiant Aegis (10k potency shield)

Healer:
WHM - Aquaveil (8k potency shield)
AST - Double Cast Benefic (4k potency shield)
SCH - Adlo and Seraphic Veil (6k potency shield or 4k potency shield)
SGE - Eukrasian Dosis (8k potency shield)

Man I always love those bad faith posts in an imaginary unicorn vacuum with no consideration for actual games. Not exactly rocket science to go browse every job toolkit and look for whatever shield ability they have, and then come up with a list like that. What an intellectual performance.

Edit: to clarify, I could debunk half of those and show you why it's not that that clear cut, but the short answer is, if you're sitting on all those defensives at all times just to potentially defend against a SAM LB, I don't know what to say. Also, if you're already taking damage when popping your shield, odds are that your shield is going to melt before SAM LB actually hits you anyway. On the other hand, I'm not saying SAM LB is broken. It's underwhelming at high level, and only game changing at low level because people don't pay attention. If we're talking about FLs, FLs are just a shitshow with no real UI to help you dodge it anyway.

[Seto_Mimyho]

Please don't put down your turret vs a sam with lb up, like ever, for the love of ...

Are you saying that you aren't putting MCH turret on point during a team fight where cleaves are most likely to happen? Or is this in the scope of putting it on yourself to bait the LB? cause either way you are getting value out of it...

Man I always love those bad faith posts in an imaginary unicorn vacuum with no consideration for actual games. Not exactly rocket science to go browse every job toolkit and look for whatever shield ability they have, and then come up with a list like that. What an intellectual performance.

Edit: to clarify, I could debunk half of those and show you why it's not that that clear cut, but the short answer is, if you're sitting on all those defensives at all times just to potentially defend against a SAM LB, I don't know what to say. Also, if you're already taking damage when popping your shield, odds are that your shield is going to melt before SAM LB actually hits you anyway. On the other hand, I'm not saying SAM LB is broken. It's underwhelming at high level, and only game changing at low level because people don't pay attention. If we're talking about FLs, FLs are just a shitshow with no real UI to help you dodge it anyway.

I mean... it's a good thing all this stuff is balanced around CC and not FL. You might not be able to survive 100% of the time, based on a variety of variables, but assuming you have the spacing to do so and have it lined up, try baiting the LB. SAM LB not being used gives the SAM infinite pressure at all times in a fight since a wayward cleave means death. You can control the efficacy of it by successfully baiting it putting the SAM out of position, since Zan is a dash, and eliminating the possibility of it being used against your teammates with less focus or vision of the battlefield. In terms of actual difficulty to pull off the bait; DNC, AST, SAM, BRD, RDM, and GNB have the hardest times due to how Zan snapshots otherwise most other classes have pretty on-demand defensive. It's a risky skill set to have but one very much worth investing in.

[hexxxx]

Oh me, oh my, would you look at this...
Ways to survive SAM LB in PVP (Assuming you're at Max HP)

Tanks:
PLD - Shelltron or Hallowed (12k potency shield / Immunity)
WAR - Bloodwhetting (10% HP shield)
GNB - Tank Junction Powder Combo (15k potency shield)
DRK - Blackest Night or Eventide (8k potency shield / Immunity)

Melee:
NIN - Huton (16k potency shield)
MNK - Thunderclap (6k potency shield)
SAM - Ogi Namikiri or Kaeshi: Namikiri (8k potency shield on 2 target hits for both hits)
DRG - Sky Shatter (24k potency shield)
RPR - Crest (12k potency shield)

Ranged:
MCH - Bishop Turret (6k potency shield)
BRD - dead; Bind and pray
DNC - Honing Ovation (5k potency shield at max stacks)

Magic:
BLM - Burst (16k potency shield)
RDM - White Shift Melee Combo (18k potency shield)
SMN - Radiant Aegis (10k potency shield)

Healer:
WHM - Aquaveil (8k potency shield)
AST - Double Cast Benefic (4k potency shield)
SCH - Adlo and Seraphic Veil (6k potency shield or 4k potency shield)
SGE - Eukrasian Dosis (8k potency shield)

[Elkanah]

It needs to nerf. It is total BS they can instakill you from full health with a single move.

Stop chasing samurai players lol. I see a sam anywhere near the pack, I avoid it lol

[Elissar]

I would like to hear what those guards from Stormlood trailer has to say about SAM OP movements.

[Llynethil]

If you cc a sam and los him, you just survived the sam lb because the debuff will be gone when he gets los back, which is far better then trying to turret and die anyway because the shield either didn't come up fast enough, or you die anyway because you're left with 6k hp which is nothing.

I KNOW IT DOESN'T DEBUFF THAT'S NOT THE POINT.

You AIN'T surviving a sam lb as machinist with that crap shield period unless you're fighting in FL maybe then ye your point is valid, now your team is down to 4 and prob loses ground because of it, how the hell is that a better situation then los the sam, then kill him and gain ground meanwhile, and when he returns, be more carefull and bait out the chiten instead of the actual debuff then kill him again.

In what world is facetanking that lb a better option than just cc and los then removing the sam from the field, you gonna facetank as a machinist every 120s?

And yes turret is good in general, but NOT vs sam lb when you got debuffed.

[TiraMsu]

If you cc a sam and los him, you just survived the sam lb because the debuff will be gone when he gets los back, which is far better then trying to turret and die anyway because the shield either didn't come up fast enough, or you die anyway because you're left with 6k hp which is nothing.

I KNOW IT DOESN'T DEBUFF THAT'S NOT THE POINT.

You AIN'T surviving a sam lb as machinist with that crap shield period unless you're fighting in FL maybe then ye your point is valid, now your team is down to 4 and prob loses ground because of it, how the hell is that a better situation then los the sam, then kill him and gain ground meanwhile, and when he returns, be more carefull and bait out the chiten instead of the actual debuff then kill him again.

In what world is facetanking that lb a better option than just cc and los then removing the sam from the field, you gonna facetank as a machinist every 120s?

And yes turret is good in general, but NOT vs sam lb when you got debuffed.

let me ask you this. how much CC have you played as MCH? in light party? in casuals? in ranked? because i have played and won thousands of ranked games as a machinist and have also played machinist in casuals and light party. i have experience playing and winning with this class and have successfully baited SAM lb with machinist turret MANY TIMES. so i can say your comment that it's a "crap shield" is objectively misguided at best. any shield that lets you survive a SAM lb isn't crap imo, and again, just because you can't do something doesn't invalidate it as an effective tool.

your mindset for cc play is the issue. you think in terms of micro instead of macro play. of course it's situationally important to consider whether your team comp is heavily reliant on aoe for bursts, but this entire game mode is about lb economy. let's say i followed your "recommended course of action" and cc and los the SAM - they then have 25 second cooldown on chiten, BUT THEY STILL HAVE A 25K POTENS AOE ATTACK ON DEMAND. so let's say their team members have forms of cc or an aoe stun (RPR, DNC, GNB, WHM) and your team members dont guard or have their guard broken. it doesn't matter that the SAM didnt get a chiten proc off any of those team members because 25k aoe on top of cleaves/dmg buffs (gnb)/etc, those multiple team members (which could have lbs or a slower lb regeneration than you) are ko'd. now if the SAM gets the chiten proc off and there aren't any of the mitigating techniques listed in the original post? that's even worse because the lb economy of the opposite team is in an even better position better than yours. 1 SAM lb in exchange for delaying the build of more than one player's lbs? that is never a good exchange for your team.

[TiraMsu]

If you cc a sam and los him, you just survived the sam lb because the debuff will be gone when he gets los back, which is far better then trying to turret and die anyway because the shield either didn't come up fast enough, or you die anyway because you're left with 6k hp which is nothing.

I KNOW IT DOESN'T DEBUFF THAT'S NOT THE POINT.

You AIN'T surviving a sam lb as machinist with that crap shield period unless you're fighting in FL maybe then ye your point is valid, now your team is down to 4 and prob loses ground because of it, how the hell is that a better situation then los the sam, then kill him and gain ground meanwhile, and when he returns, be more carefull and bait out the chiten instead of the actual debuff then kill him again.

In what world is facetanking that lb a better option than just cc and los then removing the sam from the field, you gonna facetank as a machinist every 120s?

And yes turret is good in general, but NOT vs sam lb when you got debuffed.

also, have you tried not getting debuffed? because turret not proccing chiten actually IS the point. as a machinist you are in a position where you have a skill that can deal damage and debuff your enemy/buff your team or self and then be able to sit there and not hit the SAM until their chiten wears off. if the idea of not hitting gcds makes you anxious, there are 4 other enemy combatants you could use single-target skills on in the meantime.

[Llynethil]

also, have you tried not getting debuffed? because turret not proccing chiten actually IS the point. as a machinist you are in a position where you have a skill that can deal damage and debuff your enemy/buff your team or self and then be able to sit there and not hit the SAM until their chiten wears off. if the idea of not hitting gcds makes you anxious, there are 4 other enemy combatants you could use single-target skills on in the meantime.

Look the first post we were reacting to, it was a list of random shields that prevent the oneshot, the whole point is turret shield does not help when you are ALREADY debuffed and want to not get destroyed by the sam, it shields too late and is too weak anyway to survive, noone is saying in every other situation turret is also bad, it's the specific situation of having hit the chiten and the best way to survive it, CC'ing gives better odds than turret shield.

Yes if you aren't debuffed it's fine to drop the turret, everyone knows this already.

You guys are the ones turning into a completely different argument.