Samurai LB is still BS

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I mean to be fair, even without the instant kill a Kuzushi-Zantetsuken would still be 30,000 damage in an AOE with a dash - which I think would be fine in a world where Skyshatter wouldnt crank the damage to 40,000 from the inner ring and with a 20,000 outer ring hit (note: all under effect of Geirskogul which is standard practice).

I personally would not be opposed to removing the instant kill component as long as the Guard pierce on Kuzushi targets retains and the damage being amped in general.

[Vatom]

I mean to be fair, even without the instant kill a Kuzushi-Zantetsuken would still be 30,000 damage in an AOE with a dash - which I think would be fine in a world where Skyshatter wouldnt crank the damage to 40,000 from the inner ring and with a 20,000 outer ring hit (note: all under effect of Geirskogul which is standard practice).

I personally would not be opposed to removing the instant kill component as long as the Guard pierce on Kuzushi targets retains and the damage being amped in general.

Respectfully think your math isn't mathing right there

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Respectfully think your math isn't mathing right there

Damage values:

Zantetsuken base damage: 24000
Skyshatter INNER circle base: 32000 (2 x 16000)
Skyshatter OUTER ring base: 16000

Skyshatter damage tooltip:
// Delivers an attack with a potency of 16,000 to all nearby enemies. (10y radius)
// Potency is doubled when targets are within 5 yalms.

Geirskogul damage increase: +25% for 10s
Hissatsu: Chiten's "Kuzushi" effect: +25% dmg to target with the debuff (from SAM only)

Skyshatter OUTER: 16000 + (16000 * 0.25) = 16000 + 4000 = 20000
Skyshatter INNER: 32000 + (32000 * 0.25) = 32000 + 8000 = 40000
Zantetsuken (if it didnt have instantkill): 24000 + (24000 * 0.25) = 24000 + 6000 = 30000

Respectfully going to disagree, I mathed it and tested it.

[Vatom]

Damage values:

Zantetsuken base damage: 24000
Skyshatter INNER circle base: 32000 (2 x 16000)
Skyshatter OUTER ring base: 16000

Skyshatter damage tooltip:
// Delivers an attack with a potency of 16,000 to all nearby enemies. (10y radius)
// Potency is doubled when targets are within 5 yalms.

Geirskogul damage increase: +25% for 10s
Hissatsu: Chiten's "Kuzushi" effect: +25% dmg to target with the debuff (from SAM only)

Skyshatter OUTER: 16000 + (16000 * 0.25) = 16000 + 4000 = 20000
Skyshatter INNER: 32000 + (32000 * 0.25) = 32000 + 8000 = 40000
Zantetsuken (if it didnt have instantkill): 24000 + (24000 * 0.25) = 24000 + 6000 = 30000

Respectfully going to disagree, I mathed it and tested it.

Ah I see you atdded buff to dash my bad
that almost never happens unless you have great server ping

[Llynethil]

I personally would not be opposed to removing the instant kill component as long as the Guard pierce on Kuzushi targets retains and the damage being amped in general.

Think 20k-25k with guard pierce would be enough if they also look at buffing sam overall a little to make them a bigger threat in regular non lb fights.

[Towa-Musa]

instant death on less then 50% hp is fine, but when you kill somebody with a samurai combo lb it is akin to killing somebody with a stage hazard... you may have killed them but you did not really earn it.
I mean if you need samurai lb to kill somebody you're just sad and i'll laugh at you when somebody emotes on your body.

[RyuuZero]

I disagree, Samurai is a god forspoken Kaitenless Shinten Spammer in PvE.
PvP is the Last Bastion for the Samurai to resemble a Fun Job and the Instant Kill LB is just a Part of it. I had it alot of times where I debuff trigger lb'd someone and only cut down like 70% HP that's supposed to be an instaKill. on CC I once witnessed a 5men kill from an Enemy Samurai and I wasn't even mad

[Remish]

I don't really care if it's a skill issue on my part. The SAM LB is a problem. It's not fun, it's not enjoyable. At the very least, let me use Guard to mitigate some of the damage.

[Valence]

I'd be happier with a buffed SAM LB like advanced earlier by Reinhart above without the oneshot effect. The dash AoE on its own is a unique shape, and the amount of damage it deals on full parties is nothing to scoff at, much like SMN and DRG LB, which are table turning LBs already. DRG has the benefit of doing the spikier damage but is also telegraphed and guardable, while SMN is instant (hard to guard against it unless pure luck). SAM just takes longer to charge, and I think it's okay since it goes through guards anyway.

If the "you're just bad if you get hit by it" crowd is unhappy about that, then I actually pause to wonder why it would be so, since it's so easy not to get hit by it to begin with, which makes it underwhelming or bad by definition right? So they should be happy about such a change with potential buffs (charge time or damage).

[UkcsAlias]

If the "you're just bad if you get hit by it" crowd is unhappy about that, then I actually pause to wonder why it would be so, since it's so easy not to get hit by it to begin with, which makes it underwhelming or bad by definition right? So they should be happy about such a change with potential buffs (charge time or damage).

The problem lies at many parts that act together. And needs a solution that handles a lot of those cases.

And a few key aspects i noticed:
- No warning
- Too easily accidentaly triggered

While the strong hit can be desired, its instant kill is not. However, with a proper warning, that insta kill might be. So for that i might have a suggestion:
Chiten now instead of having a binary Kuzushi, Kuzushi now works based on stacks. And for example each stack reduces the effect of guard by 20%, capping at 5 (we can also do 3 stacks and 33%, or basicly any value with a fixed point for the ohko), When maxed, the player gets a highlight (to mark the guaranteed instant kill and help the SAM).
This means that in teamfights, you can now take some risks as instead of instantly having a full mark, you can watch the stacks you obtained. And yes, there will still be that binary point of 4 and 5 stacks, but it enables a newer player to for example take 3 as their treshold for care, instead of 4. It gives a progression of survival, while still involving a risk/reward situation, that can backfire.

And yes, you can be sure newer/bad players will die by this because they dont track the stacks. Which then is a l2p, but its one they can at least be hinted to, and learn track! As its no longer purely binary. It requires a bit more setup.

As a bonus effect, SAM now can also use this as a teamfight buff even without LB. Making guard weaker for everyone can still be a strong effect and on that offset the cheese strategy. And its a lot more likely to trigger in that case, as people wont be worried as quickly, and are a lot more likely to just take those 2 stacks.