Samurai LB is still BS

[Belle_Velvet]

It needs to nerf. It is total BS they can instakill you from full health with a single move.

[Archeron]

It needs to nerf. It is total BS they can instakill you from full health with a single move.

Oh boy, its another one of these threads!

No. You deserve to die everytime you get LB'd by a Samurai. Their toolkit is limited enough as it is. If you can't watch your AOE around a Samurai, Can't keep track of them putting chiten up, or generally fall for their easy bait then you have bought, and paid full price for that OHKO.

[Valence]

The toolkit being underwhelming is not an excuse for a job to disproportionately rely on its LB to remain viable.

( a good sam can also delete ranges in no time with all the cc it has, not to be trifled with )

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I mean to be fair, even without the instant kill a Kuzushi-Zantetsuken would still be 30,000 damage in an AOE with a dash - which I think would be fine in a world where Skyshatter wouldnt crank the damage to 40,000 from the inner ring and with a 20,000 outer ring hit (note: all under effect of Geirskogul which is standard practice).

I personally would not be opposed to removing the instant kill component as long as the Guard pierce on Kuzushi targets retains and the damage being amped in general.

[UkcsAlias]

Can't keep track of them putting chiten up, or generally fall for their easy bait then you have bought, and paid full price for that OHKO.

And its a good reason for me to avoid pvp entirely. Because this is a false reason, as mobas already have teached me.

These OHKOs are anoying because you cannot control your teammates. Having a teammate constantly fall for this without being able to realy act against it is a major cause for frustration. Nearly all mobas are trying to avoid OHKOs as much as possible, as its unhealthy for balance as it always means someone has to babysit the bad player, and that often takes a lot of resources away that could be used for your proper teammates. Yet you are forced to, because feeding the enemy is generaly worse.

Not having OHKO is healthier since it gives the bad player a better sense of progression in surviving. When they realize an early retreat means they survive more often, it helps at having them learn. But a OHKO is a binary result: it happens, or it doesnt. There is no middle step to learn any progression. And binary systems like that are generaly just broken.

And this isnt a l2p issue either. As especialy at higher skill levels, these binary OHKO mechanics are deemed unwanted because instead of relying on skill, it becomes a guessing game in timing. To realy measure skill, you want reliable outcomes and not have to deal with something that feels like complete rng. And yes, you can guess moments in which they will use such abilities, but is that realy worth it to waste a cooldown on (which if misguessed gives the enemy a free shot anyway)?

[Vatom]

I mean to be fair, even without the instant kill a Kuzushi-Zantetsuken would still be 30,000 damage in an AOE with a dash - which I think would be fine in a world where Skyshatter wouldnt crank the damage to 40,000 from the inner ring and with a 20,000 outer ring hit (note: all under effect of Geirskogul which is standard practice).

I personally would not be opposed to removing the instant kill component as long as the Guard pierce on Kuzushi targets retains and the damage being amped in general.

Respectfully think your math isn't mathing right there

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Respectfully think your math isn't mathing right there

Damage values:

Zantetsuken base damage: 24000
Skyshatter INNER circle base: 32000 (2 x 16000)
Skyshatter OUTER ring base: 16000

Skyshatter damage tooltip:
// Delivers an attack with a potency of 16,000 to all nearby enemies. (10y radius)
// Potency is doubled when targets are within 5 yalms.

Geirskogul damage increase: +25% for 10s
Hissatsu: Chiten's "Kuzushi" effect: +25% dmg to target with the debuff (from SAM only)

Skyshatter OUTER: 16000 + (16000 * 0.25) = 16000 + 4000 = 20000
Skyshatter INNER: 32000 + (32000 * 0.25) = 32000 + 8000 = 40000
Zantetsuken (if it didnt have instantkill): 24000 + (24000 * 0.25) = 24000 + 6000 = 30000

Respectfully going to disagree, I mathed it and tested it.

[Xylira]

Oh boy, its another one of these threads!

No. You deserve to die everytime you get LB'd by a Samurai. Their toolkit is limited enough as it is. If you can't watch your AOE around a Samurai, Can't keep track of them putting chiten up, or generally fall for their easy bait then you have bought, and paid full price for that OHKO.

Yeah, but actually not really.

The net code is janky enough where you can attack a SAM who doesn't have chiten up, but if they activate it at the same time and you get unlucky enough with the server tick registering it first, you're SOL. This is even worse for MCH and BRD who have a short cast time on their main attack, which makes it even easier for a SAM to slip in a chiten before an attack even easier. Good luck to anyone that has a moderately higher ping, their chances of falling victim to this sort of thing is even higher.

So this notion that 'you deserve to die' is straight up BS. There are absolutely cases where you can do everything right from your perspective, but still end up triggering Kuzushi.

[Llynethil]

I personally would not be opposed to removing the instant kill component as long as the Guard pierce on Kuzushi targets retains and the damage being amped in general.

Think 20k-25k with guard pierce would be enough if they also look at buffing sam overall a little to make them a bigger threat in regular non lb fights.

[Towa-Musa]

instant death on less then 50% hp is fine, but when you kill somebody with a samurai combo lb it is akin to killing somebody with a stage hazard... you may have killed them but you did not really earn it.
I mean if you need samurai lb to kill somebody you're just sad and i'll laugh at you when somebody emotes on your body.