Thread: On Themis [6.4 SPOILER]

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

The best kinds of tragedies in fiction are the ones you can't stop. They hit emotionally harder, and they make you develop feelings for the characters in a strong manner. Personally I think it's the best way to end his and Lahabrea's characters off. You understand them completely, know how they were as people, and helps you come to terms with why things had to end the way they did.

Apologies for not spoilering. I've not posted in a while and forgotten how the heck you do it on this forum, but this whole thread has a warning, so it's probably okay.

I don't think the reason some people hope for an alternative timeline for the Ancients is because they dislike the tragic element - if anything, the need vs. need inevitability of the situation is what made them so compelling in the first place in Shadowbringers. It's a palliative care concept for the reason they were doomed in the first place not feeling considered.

That being said, I liked that this patch moved away from Endwalker's "this was all for the best in the end and couldn't have been any other way" back to Shadowbringer's more grounded-feeling "history is written by the winners", and all of the characterization was great. Themis's final scene had a very different note to Emet's farewell(s) insofar as it almost felt like he was choosing to forgive the WoL on his own terms rather than just accepting his fate. It was a strong moment that defined his character really well.

My overall feelings on Pandaemonium were sort of a muted positive. To be brief, I think it nailed the overall characterization of the Ancient cast (Athena is my wife ten million times over), and genuinely huge credit to Hiroi for that. I love all of them dearly, even - especially - ones I never expected to love. It also returned to the Shadowbringers tone of emphasizing that they were good people trying to do the right thing who absolutely did not deserve what happened to them, which I appreciated.

That being said, it also left me feeling like the Warrior of Light is pretty much a terrible, garbage person who is now actively complicit with allowing the Final Days to play out unchecked and then the Sundering, now actively choosing to not bother even trying to save these wonderful people who have now all bent over backwards to help save the WoL and their people even to no personal benefit, even to their own detriment, and that gross feeling plus the MSQ being terrible right now has left me in an overall state of, finally, basically just not caring about this game overall anymore.

I can't really blame anyone for being furious that everything is still, individual characterization strength or no, being paddled into insisting "we must accept the slaughter of these people and allow it to happen with a nod and a smile" to the point of even forcing the direct victims to smile/nod to it, as opposed to that whole nonsense about "ignoring the plight of those who might be saved is not wisdom..." or whatever it was - whoever said that must have, obviously, been some kind of sucker - but, well, here we are.

Alas.

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

The best kinds of tragedies in fiction are the ones you can't stop. They hit emotionally harder, and they make you develop feelings for the characters in a strong manner. Personally I think it's the best way to end his and Lahabrea's characters off. You understand them completely, know how they were as people, and helps you come to terms with why things had to end the way they did.

Gimme that alt timeline. I don't care if it doesn't hit as hard.

Originally Posted by redheadturk

Gimme that alt timeline. I don't care if it doesn't hit as hard.

Please, no more Marvel multiverse garbage. We already lost a potentially good game out of Bayonetta 3 because of it. Let a story retain consequences.

Originally Posted by Iedarus

Please, no more Marvel multiverse garbage. We already lost a potentially good game out of Bayonetta 3 because of it. Let a story retain consequences.

I mean, it's already happened. That's a factor in the contention: it's already established to be possible and have happened, but the emotional catharsis and acceptability of this expansion's writing largely depends on desperately hoping we just pretend it isn't and hasn't, even though it was the very crux of just the prior expansion's plot.

It just gets even moreso when you examine it further and recognize how it falls into the pattern where a multiverse is acceptable and even considered good and heroic to weave, but on the condition that it's to the benefit of the player/Warrior of Light, as usual. Anyone else is stuck "accepting their tragic fate" and prioritizing reducing so much as mere emotional consequences to the WoL as much as possible.