Why is all new content such a cakewalk?

[ValCat]

If we need an example, i kinda wish SE would adapt the mythic difficulty from WoW. Or in general the difficulty of dungeons from WoW. Ofc that system isn't perfect but it would be really nice if we had some sort of engaging content in the game that people could do daily which isn't just braindead roulettes. There is a reason why many raiders only sub for the raids and then leave again after they cleared and it is a huge loss for SE overall tbh. cause they seem to not be able to keep the midcore playerbase engaged.

I think WoW's exclusive concentration on mythic dungeons and raids has lost them a lot of players. You can see it in the changes they are implementing now, they are trying to shift it back again a bit. Why would they do that, if the numbers would'nt suggest it to them? I think what had worked better in WoW were the old hard modes (the ones before the mythic system was introduced not that step in between). But you'd outgear those too.

I can understand your need and wish for recurring content you find challenging. I applaud, if people with different tastes get their wish. But i think SE still will need to find something beyond msq content to do that. Because, if people (not necessarily you, you seem more nuanced) get their wish there, it might simply render the game unplayable for people below a certain skill level and for all I can see, SE doesn't want that.

Maybe they will build up on the criterion dungeon idea, make that more flexible, so it cannot be predicted as much and then have it as a roulette. I, personally, think, that is one of the better ways, since experienced players will always learn encounters fast and if they know them, they will be trivial to them. I don't think there will be any good ways to aleviate this other than making instances unpredictable. For me, these criterion dungeons seem like a test right now. I can be wrong, though.
Another thing along those lines is the duty-support I percieve as a fall back or safety net. Maybe this will someday cover all of the msq and then, you can always experience the story and the other things can be a bit more flexible.

I am not adverse to job-changes (or role changes). I just think it will always be hard to satisfy demanding players and not overwhelm struggling ones with the same content.

[Shinkuno]

I think WoW's exclusive concentration on mythic dungeons and raids has lost them a lot of players. You can see it in the changes they are implementing now, they are trying to shift it back again a bit. Why would they do that, if the numbers would'nt suggest it to them? I think what had worked better in WoW were the old hard modes (the ones before the mythic system was introduced not that step in between). But you'd outgear those too.

I can understand your need and wish for recurring content you find challenging. I applaud, if people with different tastes get their wish. But i think SE still will need to find something beyond msq content to do that. Because, if people (not necessarily you, you seem more nuanced) get their wish there, it might simply render the game unplayable for people below a certain skill level and for all I can see, SE doesn't want that.

Maybe they will build up on the criterion dungeon idea, make that more flexible, so it cannot be predicted as much and then have it as a roulette. I, personally, think, that is one of the better ways, since experienced players will always learn encounters fast and if they know them, they will be trivial to them. I don't think there will be any good ways to aleviate this other than making instances unpredictable. For me, these criterion dungeons seem like a test right now. I can be wrong, though.
Another thing along those lines is the duty-support I percieve as a fall back or safety net. Maybe this will someday cover all of the msq and then, you can always experience the story and the other things can be a bit more flexible.

I am not adverse to job-changes (or role changes). I just think it will always be hard to satisfy demanding players and not overwhelm struggling ones with the same content.

WHat shift? If anything, Dragonflight focuses even harder on M+ and Raids for gearing. Theres also alot less casual cosmetic grinds compared to Shadowlands. Overall Dragonflight feels more like a FF14 Expansion but with more content and better combat.

[Atelier-Bagur]

WHat shift? If anything, Dragonflight focuses even harder on M+ and Raids for gearing. Theres also alot less casual cosmetic grinds compared to Shadowlands. Overall Dragonflight feels more like a FF14 Expansion but with more content and better combat.

And better story.



Oooooooooh! Im sure thats gonna tickle the "what was up with that lackluster story in EW" thread andys their funny bones in validation

[Shinkuno]

And better story.



Oooooooooh! Im sure thats gonna tickle the "what was up with that lackluster story in EW" thread andys their funny bones in validation

Couldnt care about that tbh. WoWs story was always a rough justification why we are killing someone or something. And FF14s story is every shonen anime ever with just as much filler and needless fanservice.

[ValCat]

I shouldn't have brought it up, since it might seriously derail the topic. My bad, sorry. Not talking about huge shifts here (that's why I have said 'a bit') and I don't play, just go by my friends' experiences (all a bit more like me). But with that game, even little things for groups like RPers are a surprise for me. These things have just never happened before. Very, very low expectations here.

[caffe_macchiato]

SE should maybe try to provide engaging content that will last, raiding is great and a good challenge for people but it slowly dies down and leaves a lot of time open. I honestly can't see how the argument of "Yes but once every 5 months you will be able to actually use all your healing actions for maybe a week or two" is a good argument.

Many people play FFXIV precisely because they can do their mandatory reclears for an hour each week and then go back to playing other games. Raiding in FFXIV is largely a chore because it’s a game of Simon Says and rote memorization. It’s a “dance”, as people call it. Except dancing isn’t a video game. It’s just a chore that you have to do every Tuesday because you have to, but thankfully it’s over quickly and you can play games that are actually fun.

If we need an example, i kinda wish SE would adapt the mythic difficulty from WoW.

Uh oh! You said the wrong thing! Uh…Bobby Kotick! Breast milk in the fridge! Bill Cosby! Shadowlands! Borrowed power! Haha, you’ve been defeated, now give up and bow to the best MMO of all time, which of course is the game that lets you play other games.

[Zeastria]

By the time you get to end game normal raids and expert roulette, you should have a few hundred hours in the game. You ARE a long time player.

MSQ dosnt teach you that much when you look only at the MSQ ( it's mostly story driven).
It's easy to miss the other alliance raids too (60,70,80 ones)
1-90 took me 4 weeks ..i have played for 4+months now...and i still learn new things.
Many hours ingame dosnt necessarily mean = a lot of experience --> that depends on the content you interact with ingame.
(For all u know somone could spend 1year just doing RP..)

[R041]

I think WoW's exclusive concentration on mythic dungeons and raids has lost them a lot of players. You can see it in the changes they are implementing now, they are trying to shift it back again a bit. Why would they do that, if the numbers would'nt suggest it to them? I think what had worked better in WoW were the old hard modes (the ones before the mythic system was introduced not that step in between). But you'd outgear those too.

You need to explain what you're talking about here - Because I'm not quite sure that's true.

How are they shifting it back, and what's the difference between old hard modes, old Mythic, and new Mythic? How are they focusing on raids?

The dungeon scaling with Normal, Heroic, and Mythic is a varied system of all degrees. Hard modes are just steps without a proper ramp. Like how we have Normal and Savage, there's no ramp. It's a single large step up into pain. WoW has ramps players use.

A lot of XIV players don't understand how WoW dungeons work, so using blanket statements gives them a bad impression - When it's not bad, it's just different.

[R041]

By the time you get to end game normal raids and expert roulette, you should have a few hundred hours in the game. You ARE a long time player.

Go do 300 hours of MSQ, not only do they rarely see combat content, but the content they DO end up doing will be much easier than if they did it on release. Chances are you won't be gearing much because you'll just always have max ilvl for each expac.

If you're DPS, you can get hit by more than half of the mechanics and be fine, then the fight is over because most fights with high ilvl are only half as long anyway. If you're Tank, you're basically invincible.

As soon as they hit current expac at min-ilvl, it may as well be a completely different game to them, where they need to actually dodge mechanics more than once a fight.

Normal Raids pre-Endwalker are a joke because of ilvl scaling.

[ValCat]

(...)
How are they shifting it back, and what's the difference between old hard modes, old Mythic, and new Mythic? How are they focusing on raids?

Okay, I don't buy into the notion of ranking games universally. Different things in different games just fit preferences more or less.

For the dungeons:
Pre-Draenor, you wouldn't have had that triplet of dungeon difficulties. You had normals and heroic dungeons. I, personally (!), liked that better.
The introduction of mythic dungeons was meant to reflect higher raid difficulty in content for smaller groups. Mythic + deepens that system (it is a progression system where the dungeons get increasingly more difficult). So yes, more effort went into that content since Draenor.
And WoW's always put emphasis on their raids, that is nothing new. The focus of the game is much more on the endgame, than it is here.

WoW had become increasingly difficult to play with alts (this would take a lot of time to explain) and you need to do that in contrast to ff14 to experience different classes.

The shifts I have heard about, are small things, really. Toys you can use for RP (like skybox changes, or that just stay a bit), the one group that stuck with WoW forever and was never catered to. Or the halfed cost to upgrade gear for alts, that I've heard about, more satisfying world exploration. More and divers overworld-content. If they'd been sure that a focus on pure progression on main characters were the werewithal, they would have stuck with that, imo.