Revelations from Patch 6.4: The Dark Throne

[MoofiaBossVal]

MSQ

I would like to see the game stand by the ideology it touts. Have one of the main characters refuse to do something wrong and die for it.

*sigh* we are relying on Sharlayan scholars to magick up the solution. Again! We could have tried finding a clan of Garlean reapers, who would've known how to open portals to the Void so Voidsent could come through to be bound. But no, that's too cool for FFXIV.

Wait, the Tower of Babil - aka the Imperial Palace, aka the tower cobbled together out of the broken civilization of Garlemald - hasn't been dismantled and buried? Talk about using the seat of power and the graveyard of a civilization to suit our own ends.




Why not just say "Zenos' and Fandaniel's spies"? The Telephoroi turned out not to be an organization as implied in 5.4, but just two dudes.

They're trying to downplay it but Garlemald is effectively being occupied by the Eorzean Alliance. That is interesting. Why don't they show us this occupation?




If Hydaelyn could power a starship, then why did she run out of strength after shielding the WoL from the Ultima Weapon in ARR 2.0? Why was she so weak that she had to had to bodyjack Minfillia just to talk, rather than projecting her spirit like she did at Mor Dhona in 5.5 or on the boat to Sharlayan in 6.0?




You're not my dear friend at all.




That's what happens when the writers closed up every trouble in the setting over the past two years. Different pirate factions and some of them are hostile? Gone, they all obey Merlwyb now. Beast tribes that kidnap and sacrifice people? They are ALL best buddies with the city states now. Garlemald? All of their legions are wiped out or surrender offscreen. Only thing left is to pull new hostile forces from out of thin air and have them invade.

You'd think that the visit of the sovereign of one of the wealthiest countries in the world to Sharlayan would attract attention. You know, maybe guards escorting Vytra, or politicians coming out to greet him, or people curious to get a glimpse at him.




Too bad the actual game world isn't as picturesque as the dungeons.




Again, the Eorzea depicted in the corridor dungeons is much cooler than almost all of the zones you get to actually run around in.

When I saw the arced platform and the tentacles pop up out of the water, I got excited for a few seconds thinking that maybe it would be a multi-target encounter where you would have to split the party up to cut down multiple different tentacles, like Megaera from Throne of Thunder. Then it turned out that no, it's just a straight forward tank and spank on a single target. Missed potential.

Knock it off with the navel gazing.




... What neutrality? You fought for the Eorzean Alliance against Garlemald.

Why would the remnant of Garlemald heed the request of their great enemy, the Warrior of Light who slaughtered thousands of their people and had a hand in destroying their civilization? The hero of their occupiers? Just because I saved them from zombies isn't going to make them forget that.

Didn't Lucia and Maxima just tell us that the Garleans had proper housing now? Why are they still sleaping on the seats of passenger trains and burning fires inside containers?

I'm surprised Jullus has not been shanked yet for being a collaborator.




It's been how long, and the Garleans still haven't scrubbed the brains of their beloved general off of the wall?




Sorry. That tower is the only method of easy transportation to the moon. Your country will be a vassal province of the Eorzean Alliance forever. You will never be allowed to decide what to do with the tower.




See, I find it incredulous to believe that all of the Legions surrendered or were destroyed. Surely there must be an underground or gueriella movement that has been accumulating Garlemald's powerful weapons or research to use one day to drive out the occupiers, such as those Weapon Project mechas. Would also help if there were Garleans who were burning the documents so the Alliance doesn't know how many assets there are that could be used against them or how many more soldiers and loyalist organizations there are than those that have officially surrendered.




The Alliance controls the narrative in Eorzea, and in much of Othard. They will just take your words out of context, reframe the situation, or outright lie to make themselves look like just and reasonable guardians to their peoples.




Again, for an empire this huge, there should be several Garlean organizations helping you, just as a Jewish or Muslim disapora is tight knit and resourceful.




... They can't. They're being occupied. The Alliance wants to use the tower, which means occupying the surrounding area in which a local populace dwells. Said populace must be prevented from seizing the tower or interfering with people travelling to and fro the tower. Which means that the populace must either be controlled or eliminated.




How is it ridiculous? It's the pragmatic move. Garlemald was the most powerful state in the world, and now that it is gone, other countries will begin viewing each other as competitors. Which means they must become more powerful to dominate each other or thwart being dominated. Meanwhile, there are plenty of remnants lying around of a vast industrial empire that was on the cutting edge of research. It doesn't matter if you don't intend to be a looter. Someone else is going to loot them and reverse engineer them and begin producing their own magitek weapons, or airship fleets to move armies over mountains, or dark magics to summon powerful demons, and use them to dominate your neighbors, so everyone else has to loot them too. It's a big fish eats small fish world. The very existance of Garlemald - of a people being repeatedly driven out of prosperous lands and into infertile ones until they drew upon dark magic and created magitek weapons to push back - is a testament to that fact. How do you not know your own history? The Emperor established Prussian-style schools to educate every citizen. "Jullus" is not talking like a Garlean inhabiting the setting. He is talking like an author's mouthpiece.

Vytra buying magitek from Garlemald does not seem like a strategically sound plan. The source of Thavnair's magitek will be from a foreign country that is extremely vulnerable. Garlemald can be ravaged by other countries and the supply line to Thavnair broken. Also, Garlemald is in ruins. The factories have to be rebuilt. Seems like the better idea would be for Vytra to try to lure away Garlean engineers and scientists by offering them a nice house and a big fat paycheck in Thavnair. Get them to migrate to Thavnair and bring their technical knowledge and expertise with them. Build magitek mecha and airship factories in Thavnair. For some reason Fourchenault passed up that opportunity when he visited Garlemald, and thus only brought home a handful of takers.




Inb4 the Lord Mettius goes missing and we are sent to find him and we save him at the last second from a mech and then he changes his mind and then agrees to the deal.

(it happens) *sigh*

More speechyifying *snooze*

Goodness gracious, why is an elderly statesman asking a teenage boy with blue hair if there is any hope?




It illbecomes the people who wrote this crap.

Nobody is allowed to dislike the WoL for longer than 5 minutes. Everyone must bow to the WoL! And we will have speeches about TRUST! *spits*

Goodness gracious, if I have to hear the word "trust" spoken one more time...

And stop pulling your hat down. You've done this 30 times.

... Why is it when Zero talks about "a friend you can trust", the WoL thought back to a mass murderer who tried to kill him?

I am 3 hours into this patch storyline and it's been pretty much all standing around and talking. Only actual gameplay thus far was in the 15 minute long corridor dungeon, and two shotting a mob. I was hoping that the story would have opened up with a massive demon invasion of Thavnair or the planet and you would have ran around getting to fight a lot.




Finally, after 4 hours we are now embarking on a high fantasy adventure.

Why isn't this a zone?

Oh look, it's another "win the boss fight, lose in the cutscene" moment.




Oh look, it's a Protoss! Or a Xel'Naga.

Add Voidcaller to the list.

I am playing what is supposed to be a high fantasy game, but there is very little adventuring to be had. It's mostly people standing around talking and espousing empty platitudes. What little actual adventuring there is, it's just not enough. Need more combat. Need new zones to visit. Story is painfully predictable. Need tension.

I guess there is the raid story, but I have a migraine so I'll do that tomorrow.

[FirstGearFirstGear]

MSQ
I am playing what is supposed to be a high fantasy game, but there is very little adventuring to be had. It's mostly people standing around talking and espousing empty platitudes. What little actual adventuring there is, it's just not enough. Need more combat. Need new zones to visit. Story is painfully predictable. Need tension.

I was going to reply to you more extensively, but instead let me just summarize my point: Why do you play this game? You don't seem to like how it presents the WoL, you don't seem to like how it presents Garlemald or Eorzea, you don't seem to like how the story is deliberately paced to be slower and involve more worldbuilding, and you don't seem to like its themes.

The points you bring up in your post are not ones that are unique to Endwalker. They are how the narrative has been structured since ARR, through multiple writers and over a real world decade. If you dislike the narrative so much, then why are you still playing a game that is heavily focused around that narrative?

[Erinellza]

MSQ. Just a few random thoughts.

Zero eating - CHECK
Zero complaining about Zenos - CHECK
Estinien being cringey - CHECK

Other than these repetitive things, the MSQ was okay.
I enjoyed the dungeon and the Garlemald scenes!
My WoL randomly thinking about Zenos made my day.
It looks like Y'shtola will go back to Runar soon.

[RyuDragnier]

The main things I'm really wondering about is whether or not the memoria crystal we Echo might've been housing an Azem shard because the way the vision was presented was very...unusual compared to how it usually is, with the perspective character being both unvoiced and unseen, as well as the hypothesis that rejoinings are something that would occur naturally for the Source but were being actively stopped by Hydaelyn, now officially raising the question of whether or not her absence is going to have any consequences.

I had the same thoughts.

It's likely the true Golbez was our shard, what with how he acted and Durante being the current Golbez we're dealing with. They seem to be heavily hinting that indeed, we're going to have to deal with the natural rejoinings mess left behind by Hydaelyn's death. Which means that prophecy from that Studium quest is back on the table as the foreshadowing of what we're going to have to do eventually.

[Tehmon]

Small MSQ rant.

I just loooove beating bad guys in trials only for them to win regardless! /s

When Golbez said '' you won the battle, but I won the war '' I was groaning. We beat his ass and he suffers no clear consequences for it. Like yeah we're in the void and we can't kill him but maybe we can at least like, keep him exhausted and occupied while saving Azdaja, ANYTHING really. DO SOMETHING SUCCESSFULLY, PLEASE. At least Zodiark had the good grace of killing himself while claiming his victory over us. This was just pure ass. The sad thing is I was thinking before the trial that oh, they aren't going to do the whole '' my defeat seals my victory '' thing again, we had that with Zodiark. But no. Void nonsense continues smh. I was looking forward to leaving it all behind.

[Vyrerus]

Just going to say one thing, don't have a lot of time to post tonight, maybe tomorrow if work isn't kicking my ass(it will be).

I was glad that Golbez wasn't actually Golbez. That was a nice little spin, and I suppose I should have theorized it what with him not being a swordsman and all and that sword being visible since the trailer.

On the note of Zeromus, the first thing that I think of with regards to its power is that if the writer's really pull out all of the stops, then Zeromus should basically get to munching on the 13th and consume all of the other Voidsent to become the big ass bad that we need in 6.5. Course, idk if that'll be as interesting as it could be, but at least it'd make the power disparity somewhat more believable with Zeromus vs. WoL. And also having the whole of a shard's power concentrated in one being that has Ancients in it, dragon in it, and all that power... with the darkness being its element... Perhaps my theory about Golbez succeeding at a total Rejoining may kick off 7.0? But nah, couldn't be. First of all, it's Golbez-D not Golbez. Surely we're just raising the stakes to give Zero a proper send off? For some reason she's giving me death flag vibes. Surely we'll just wrap up a monstrous threat no problemo with a Scion Quick-fix solution as we always do.

One wonders though, if Golbez-D didn't expect us to open up thingie on the Moon, then how was he going to make his plan come true? His plan is supposedly to rejoin the 13th to the Source so that all of the inhabitants of the 13th can die and let go of their long, miserable lives.

Anyway, that was basically my most enjoyed moment of the patch. I didn't really care for Tataru's grand thingie with Gaius. The Pandy raid fights were fun and visually impressive, but the story around them felt kind of hollow with regards to the muddiness in us dealing with Soul-Dolls essentially. But I suppose it was our last slice of Ascian Cheesecake. The last slice of cheesecake is always mournful, as all of the cheesecake is gone. Also I love how Lahabrea says that the WoL and he are diametrically opposed, because he'd be willing to do evil for the good of the star... why weren't we diametrically opposed to Hydaelyn, then? Something something, that fire's never dying. Something something, wow a truly immortal flame. Something something, rules for thee not for she.

All in all, I enjoyed the patch more than I thought I would, but I wish it were better. I think I'm starting to lose interest in FFXIV.

[SannaR]

Msq

I love that Vrtra as Varshahn is so bored from waiting for any kind of development he's at the "could start counting ceiling tiles" phase. Only for Zero to come out and show us that she's learning in inviting us to lunch. I do wonder if there is a difference in how hot the curry is on what extra spice we choose. I chose the red kernels that had the tangy description. And of course Zero's spice tolerance is so high she has been asked to supply their own extra heat. I find it interesting that even though both Varshahn models can ignore the effects of the weather Vrtra didn't make them tolerant to extra spicy food. I am a little disappointed that after the eating scene is over that they didn't leave it with all of the passed out people. The daring dinner and a few others do comment on Zero's curry afterwards though.

Then game come on you have to give Estinien simps more warning than a grunted enter for that scene. Even though we've seen the really great sweat animation before I felt as though it looked better. Estinien I love ya, but bro why you so dense at times. At least go grab a towel and wipe yourself off. You shouldn't need Vrtra breaking character to remember to go and put on a shirt.

I guess 6.5 if not 7.0 will deal with Erenville's home? As this is first time in game but 2nd time him having a thing he needs to bug Krile with being hinted at. Pleasantly surprised that he's never been on the Isle of Haam. Even for the retrieval of things for the escape plan. I'm guessing the letter and the private chat between Thancred and Urianger later also are part of 6.5/7.0 build up. Where do we think Erenville's home is at that they're asking for Archons? I love that both Urianger and Thancred when seeing tall Varshahn need no explanation. Fourchenault if you haven't completed Pandeamonium and it's floating in the Aetherial Sea tells us that just cause we have permission to go to Haam that doesn't give us permission to ignore ancient research building that's out of time.

I also love that Urianger just wanted Thancred to play mentor to Zero more than anything else. Only for Thancred to be all "Idk man she seems not as socially awkward as implied." Loved the Old Sharlyean remix for the dungeon music and that Varshahn says he'd of brought Estinien some of the boss if it had been a squid. Really love how Zero is finding out that the WoL is well connected and that due to being so that asking for permission to use things start at an easier starting block then if they weren't.

I liked the earlier description of Golbez and non Golbez. Got a little upset at the other train station cause those in there have actual beds and about a gazillion heaters. Saw the needing to save the senator from rogue mechina the instant he was the one who got the stick in the mud character label. Zero's growth and learning this patch was really nice to see to the point she finally learned what one meaning of friendship is.

Loved all of the source moon bits. The Watcher while you're doing the MSQ has a remark on what's happening, but goes back to his post 6.0 lines once the MSQ is done. I loved the look Varshahn gets when Estinien is all go fetch your actual body cause I'll make the bookworms make the rift big enough for a Wyrm to fit through if they weren't already aiming for that. I'm so glad that we got to have a talk with Azdaja before "Golbez" Shadow Dragons her. Though it seemed as though that outcome wasn't very avoidable due to how closely she was on the verge of doing so before being held captive. The fact Azdaja thought Nidhogg was a dummy and yet it's still the thing that gets her to feel a lot more hope was funny. Man that was a trial and I loved the group I was with as we talked stuff out and got it down after fourish wipes. Thank you devs for not making Zero become Zeromus. A bit strange that not Golbez calls them as a hero of eld type thing. Cylva and Unukalhai don't have anything new to say post MSQ.

Pandeamonium

No clue as to what you're all supposed to do on the 1st boss. Downed it without any problems. 2nd boss can go die in a fire though. Total nightmare fuel. I didn't want to fight Elidibus again. Kind of liked his showboating form though. Took me far longer than I liked to figure out the light and dark puddle mechanic. Athena I guess is the only ancient who enjoys rave music? So, I guess we can confirm that technically it was Lahabrea's Hephestios side that we delt with during ARR and in ARF. Liked that he and Eric-Tony were able to have a good relationship post Pandeamonium. Interesting that Eric-Tony took a silent vigil and defied the convocation's "order" for the 1st sacrifice. Loved Athena's wings. Not looking to redoing P10 or P12 each week.

Tataru

Way to confirm plastic surgery exists. A touching story and holy crap Nero just go marry Cid already. Not sure Alphonse and the others still show up during or after the quest is turned in as kids playing hide and seek. It will be interesting to see who we interact with for 6.5 as there was no hint and I can't think of anything.

Island Sanctuary

Um if you're rank 12 you get to open up a underground cave that has some of the new gathering spots. Also where all the spriggans are at. There seems to be a different spot you can open up back at base. Supposedly you get the ability for a 4th granary at rank 15. Not sure when you get the Crystarium upgrade for those as in the 6.4 site shows a different building facade than what you currently can have at rank 12. Still can only hold 20 pets though so I'll have to let something go if I want the rare spriggan.

Thancred, the Students of Baldesian ans Zodiark all have entries in the codex. Zodiark's is kind of interesting and I'm not sure how I feel about it or some of its wording.

[Carin-Eri]

Small MSQ rant.

I just loooove beating bad guys in trials only for them to win regardless! /s

When Golbez said '' you won the battle, but I won the war '' I was groaning. We beat his ass and he suffers no clear consequences for it. Like yeah we're in the void and we can't kill him but maybe we can at least like, keep him exhausted and occupied while saving Azdaja, ANYTHING really. DO SOMETHING SUCCESSFULLY, PLEASE. At least Zodiark had the good grace of killing himself while claiming his victory over us. This was just pure ass. The sad thing is I was thinking before the trial that oh, they aren't going to do the whole '' my defeat seals my victory '' thing again, we had that with Zodiark. But no. Void nonsense continues smh. I was looking forward to leaving it all behind.

Totally agree - as said in another thread:

I'll confess it annoyed me - I mean, I know there is probably some justification for it in terms of maintaining story progression... but two tropes came into play, which I found really irritating.
The first one was the classic 'Evil Gloating' trope. I mean, Golbez was on his knees, Azdaja - whilst still corrupted - was free of her cage and his control. His weapon had dissolved. Great! So what do we do? We let Golbez monologue at us.
Sorry - we should have booted his sorry ass down the abyss. Yeah, I guess that wouldn't work in terms of keeping the story going but I'm a little tired of this trope - a trope that Disney's 'The Incredibles' outright mocked - being used like this.
To be honest, it felt like a damn turn-based RPG game situation.

The second really ties into the first - the victory fakeout. Where it looks as if we've won but said assumed victory is snatched away (in this case, at least in part, because we decided that standing around listening to Golbez monologue at us was a good idea) and the situation takes a turn for the worst to the point of "oh no - we're powerless against this threat that we totally could've prevented! Run away, back to the Source!"
Run away. Again. No doubt so another convoluted contingency plan can be made.

[Cleretic]

Pandaemonium done.

My immediate opinion is admittedly tainted by way of my P10 run involving both me and the other healer dying but the tanks--two Warriors--being completely capable of carrying the team to victory anyway, which is my least favorite way to win. But my non-spoiler opinion is... well, it's good to hear others like it, because I didn't.

This is the embodiment of 'fanservice not aimed at me'; in fact, its love of beating the Ancient fanservice drum directly made the story worse for me. Because Anabeisos actually has the exact one thing I desperately wanted from an Ancient story: Athena is the absolute embodiment of the sort of character that could've made me interested in the Ancients, right down to even having the powers I would've given a theoretical 'what if the Ancients were actually as terrible as people with that sort of power and worldview would be' fanfic character... only for them to instead cram her entire presence into one and a half cutscenes, with every minute of the rest of that story instead devoted to them desperately trying to sell Elidibus and Lahabrea as Good And Tragic Heroes, and cramming in the backstory for a rock that hasn't mattered for a decade and is only relevant here in terms of making Athena less interesting. Even cracked out the Persona 4 Piano for P11, and I'll tell you right now, that piano does NOT have the same effect if you don't feel that they've earned it.

I feel like if they cut Kokytus and instead gave Athena two boss fights' worth of exposition and opposition--basically, aping Eden's Promise even more than they already were--it would've worked a lot better, at least for me. But even that would've still had my least favorite element; the fact the story REALLY beats down Lahabrea, and then just... never gives Elidibus anywhere near the same treatment despite him arguably being worse. This time it literally IS the Elidibus we fought several times before, and I'm still not given the capacity to be mad at him?

[17cupsofcoffee]

Totally agree - as said in another thread:

I'll confess it annoyed me - I mean, I know there is probably some justification for it in terms of maintaining story progression... but two tropes came into play, which I found really irritating.
The first one was the classic 'Evil Gloating' trope. I mean, Golbez was on his knees, Azdaja - whilst still corrupted - was free of her cage and his control. His weapon had dissolved. Great! So what do we do? We let Golbez monologue at us.
Sorry - we should have booted his sorry ass down the abyss. Yeah, I guess that wouldn't work in terms of keeping the story going but I'm a little tired of this trope - a trope that Disney's 'The Incredibles' outright mocked - being used like this.
To be honest, it felt like a damn turn-based RPG game situation.

The second really ties into the first - the victory fakeout. Where it looks as if we've won but said assumed victory is snatched away (in this case, at least in part, because we decided that standing around listening to Golbez monologue at us was a good idea) and the situation takes a turn for the worst to the point of "oh no - we're powerless against this threat that we totally could've prevented! Run away, back to the Source!"
Run away. Again. No doubt so another convoluted contingency plan can be made.

Agree with all of this.

I think the main thing that bugs me is that it wouldn't be particularly hard to write around the "you win the trial, but he still gets what he wants" - have him catch us unawares (while we're mid-echo at OG-Golbez's grave?), yeet Azdaja into the pit, and then battle us to stall while she's being transformed into Zeromus. That'd leave us in exactly the same place, without making the WoL look like a chump for letting the bad guy monologue.

I suppose the only downside of that is Golbez wouldn't get his sick dragon-sword