Another Pal an War buff patch, another middle finger to Drks

[RyuDragnier]

Because I don't do the napkin math, that's beyond me (I forget details all the time). I don't like current DRK, it's the worst it has ever been since its inception into the game, and has far too many problems that need fixing. I'm wanting the devs to put serious work into this job, and give ideas towards it because I don't want it to remain this bad. At the same time I expect it to be worse next expansion, because DRK has gotten worse every expansion since SB's start, and the devs have no idea what the hell they want from the job.

[Shurrikhan]

Because I don't do the napkin math, that's beyond me (I forget details all the time). I don't like current DRK, it's the worst it has ever been since its inception into the game, and has far too many problems that need fixing. I'm wanting the devs to put serious work into this job, and give ideas towards it because I don't want it to remain this bad. At the same time I expect it to be worse next expansion, because DRK has gotten worse every expansion since SB's start, and the devs have no idea what the hell they want from the job.

If you don't want to work with the math at all then start from the end instead. What are the actual gameplay considerations you want to add?

And what are you willing to give up for them? (That's not to say that we need to balance around some difficulty ceiling; I ask the latter question only because in those trained resource-hitched-to-resource design suggestions thus far, at least as much room for optimization seems like it'd be lost.)

________

Just as a heads-up, I really doubt you're going to get anything compelling, though, out of resource-hitching, so long as we continue not to have choices / significantly branching paths around them.

If the resources can only convert into each other in a single direction... it's all transitive anyways. There'd still be, for instance, zero reason to have your Darkside gauge on screen, so long as you replace the muscle memory of your faintly revised opener... because once first wave of CDs are spent, it just follows churns forward unchangeably anyways.

It's for that reason that any attempt to make Darkside not bloat when you don't actually have to choose between it and something else anyways is doomed to fail. Darkside, as it's designed right now, is not something worth salvaging.

[whiskeybravo]

One can only hope SE regrets finally caving in on the backlog of community demands around tanks.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I want Dark Arts and Speed Weapon's 47.5% uptime back

[baklava151]

I want Dark Arts and Speed Weapon's 47.5% uptime back

I always thought SB Delirium looked lame at first but when I realized you spent nearly half your rotation going fast I was sold.

[Malthir]

Personally I would like to see something like this as a rework:

Remove the auto darkside and turn it into an OGCD toggle

When not in darkside all moves give mana back

When in darkside mana is constantly drained, the weaponskill combo and all OGCD all cost mana but deal more damage and minor healing (weaponskill combo continues through the change so you could do 1 and 2 in non darkside, toggle 3 ogcd, untoggle 1,2 etc)
Obviously numbers for this need balancing to not make it OP but ideally keep the cost of the abilities low but keep the constant mana drain moderate, allowing for at least one full darkside weaponskill combo with 2 OGCD weaved in which then leaves you zero mana and kicked from darkside. Realistically you would never want to use the whole of darkside and be zero on mana because you have no health regen moves outside of darkside, so the aim would be to balance the mana gain outside of darkside with mana cost of being in darkside, similar to the original design.

Take quietus and bloodspiller off the blood meter

Unlink C&S and Abysall drain

Remove the current delirium and bring back the old weaponskill

Remove Living Dead

New move Overwhelming Darkness to replace living dead so same cooldown time. Fills all darknight resources mana, blood and darkside meter, resources and health regen increased massively overtime for 15 seconds after 15seconds all meters excpet health are zero'd regardless of state when the ability ends and all gain for these meters are blocked for 5 seconds.

Weaponskills:
Weaponskills to reflect what stance you're in. When in none darkside you're effectively just using a greatsword, once in darkside you start using some of the more darkness themed moves.

None Darkside weaponskill combo
1 Hard slash
2 Syphon strike
3 Delirum

Aoe: Unleash

In Darkside weaponskill combo
1 Powerslash (our old combo finisher where we shot the blast from the hand)
2 Soul eater
3 BloodSpiller

Aoe: Stalwart Soul

OGCD non darkside
1. Unmend is now a OGCD
2. Scourge (bring it back)
3. Spinning slash (now aoe and a OCGD)
4: Carve and slice reduce cooldown to 18 seconds reduce damage
5: Plunge no change

OGCD darkside
1. Unmend becomes Abyssal drain
2. Scouge becomes Quietus
3. Spinning slash becomes Flood of Shadow
4. Carve and slice becomes Edge of Shadow
5. Plunge no change
6. Shadow bringer unchanged

Current UI elements

The counter for darkside is now the darkest night counter, instead of counting down it counts up while you're in darkside for however long you were in darkside. This is the resource pool for TBN

Keep the blood gauge add dark arts to Blood gauge, using dark arts adds an effect to certain moves, blinds, damage down or shields for the DRK.
New move Consume: Absorbs a portion of the blood gauge to heal the Drk

Thrown away the shadow because honestly I feel it sucks, it's just a bad version of the Mach mech, button bloat would also be reduced as the darkside moves would take the place of the non darkside versions.

[Sebs]

I swear to god this is the funniest stuff ever.

DRK is finally not the top DPS of the tanks, for the first time in this expansion its lower than WAR and even PLD, and now EVERYONE is crying about WAR mains and how WARs have everything and no clunk, all it took was make DRK bad for one patch and everyone lost it, i swear to god im crying because im laughing so hard, you guys need to chill down like honestly.

yes i'm a WAR main, no i did not care about my low damage, yes i don't like current DRK and no WAR is not as perfect as you all say it is.

i have read a lot of posts about DRK in these forums recently and seems like everyone is underrating DRK survival and mitigation, it is absurd in raids and trials (the game is balanced around these things, nobody cares about dungeons), DRKs had a lot of damage and pretty fun rotation, its more active job than WAR, it has easier to keep the DPS boost up, edge of shadow being OGCD rather than Storm's eye being GCD.

if you struggle with DRK in dungeons then you are a bad DRK, sorry to tell you this but all i can say stop whining and try to get better

[Zairava]

I swear to god this is the funniest stuff ever.

DRK is finally not the top DPS of the tanks, for the first time in this expansion its lower than WAR and even PLD, and now EVERYONE is crying about WAR mains and how WARs have everything and no clunk, all it took was make DRK bad for one patch and everyone lost it, i swear to god im crying because im laughing so hard, you guys need to chill down like honestly.

yes i'm a WAR main, no i did not care about my low damage, yes i don't like current DRK and no WAR is not as perfect as you all say it is.

i have read a lot of posts about DRK in these forums recently and seems like everyone is underrating DRK survival and mitigation, it is absurd in raids and trials (the game is balanced around these things, nobody cares about dungeons), DRKs had a lot of damage and pretty fun rotation, its more active job than WAR, it has easier to keep the DPS boost up, edge of shadow being OGCD rather than Storm's eye being GCD.

if you struggle with DRK in dungeons then you are a bad DRK, sorry to tell you this but all i can say stop whining and try to get better

If I have to read what's bolded one more time I swear my brainrot is going to go terminal.

I do not care how much damage Warrior or DRK does, the issue is WAR's party sustain on Shake it Off is FAR too strong. The dps it did was the ONLY thing that kept it from being a de facto pick. However the issue, again, isn't the damage, it's what it provides in support.

There is absolutely zero reason when we have healers in this game, for Warrior to have this much party-wide healing. Paladin's clemency is at least on a GCD, and the only party-wide healing it has is well balanced (divine veil). Both Clemency and intervention are single target. Nascent Flash is pretty much identical to how it was in Shadowbringers, so that's fine, single target and all.

The problem is Shake it off. Nerf that. The shield was already potent enough, the heal on it adds healing on top of eHP (effective HP), and now it also has a regen. It isn't balanced. We have healers. Nerf it.

Dark Knight, however, does NOT have that. the only party utility it has outside of single-target TBN is Dark Missionary, which is exclusively magic damage.

DRK plays nearly identical to Warrior, in fact it has even LESS going for it because outside of your burst you are just pumping out your 1-2-3, Warrior at least has Storm's Eye to keep track of.

1-2-3 spend Blood on Bloodspiller to not overcap, 1-2-3 (occasionally 4) spend Beast Gauge on Fell Cleave to not overcap. The actual only thing DRK has that differs is that has a busier burst. and even during it's burst phase, Delirium lets you use Bloodspiller 3 times for free, Inner Release lets you use Fell Cleave 3 times for free. Nothing else happens outside of your burst. You build, you spend. It's BORING, and yet, the fact that DRK has a busier burst is the sole reason why I haven't just swapped to Warrior at this point. Both are boring, DRK is just slightly less boring during your burst phase.

The dps DRK did was the only thing it had going for it. We lost Dark Arts and actual MP management along with it, we lost our combat identity and had WAR's shoved down our throats instead. We have a broken husk of a job that they've seemingly decided to just keep kicking down the gutter. All we had to feel better about it was literally the dps we did. We have nothing to feel wanted over the other now other than "me wield big sword".

What we want a job that feels unique to play again, like we used to. There's always going to be complaining that DRK isn't fine in dungeons now when it is, which is indeed, a skill issue. I honestly don't think we need the big boost to self sustain some will claim we apparently need, but if we get it, sure, cool I guess.

I'm not getting my hopes up for DRK in 7.0, people complained and complained and complained that WAR needed more dps and now you have it, keep enjoying being the best at everything now while you laugh at us for being pissed at what they've done to us DRK mains over the years.

[Mostly_Raxus]

regardless of if they buff drk, they need to nerf war healing.

[Lyth]

I think the question going through most people's minds was if WAR would actually make it through an expansion without becoming brokenly overpowered. Clearly not.

There are a few jobs that are subject to favoritism in job balance, with WAR and BLM being recurrent offenders. I think if they identify their own biases from over the past ten years, they can work to overcome them in order to give players a more fair experience.