Please buff AST

[Renathras]

AST starts at level 30, Sage starts even higher, and it can be argued that it's skills are even more cryptic. You didn't provide specific example of why you find AST to be convoluted, there could be , though can't think of ones that I had particular issues with. I would point out however that the concept of a skill that can be used while soling is already used in Blue Mage (Basic Instinct) so it isn't as though this is an entirely new concept in FFXIV.

Also- there are terrible players in every job. AST starts at level 30, Sage starts even higher, and if you want to go down route- anyone can use a job skip on any healer, so there's always a way to start any healer that way, and consequently there is no way to know if that is why someone is "terrible". However I don't see why this should factor into or hold back buffs to AST.

Okay, fine, don't make any changes. Happier?

If someone's making an argument that you might actually agree with, maybe go with it instead of trying to nit-pick?

"...though not ALWAYS true, as a rule..." already notes there are exceptions. So saying there are exceptions isn't actually a counter-argument.

I also didn't use this as a reason for factoring into, nor holding back, buffs to AST. I used it to argue that something SLIGHTLY convoluted/newb trappy shouldn't be an argument NOT to do it.

I noted SGE started even higher. I even explicitly mentioned that in part of my post. You mention this twice - what argument are you countering? Did you think I didn't know SGE starts at a higher level than AST? Did you not see in my post me noting that SGE starts "even higher" than AST? Not just "even higher" but MUCH closer to the level cap? Do I need to spell it out more clearly?

Did you read my post before replying to it?

.

I agree Basic Instinct exists (and this was also the original intent, arguably, for Cleric Stance and Tank damage stances; the OG design in 2.0 was probably for these to be mainly abilities used when soloing, not optimization dances); using AST Cards for this is the better solution to me since (a) they already exist and (b) AST has enough button bloat already. Some trait that gives your Card buffs on yourself 2x effectiveness is a pretty small change that doesn't muck with any balance or game design issues or anything overall, could create some niche optimization cases rarely, and plays into the existing system without issue. It's a minor change that fixes the existing problem of AST's low soloing damage without mucking with the rest of the game or contributing to button bloat and the odd nature of Basic Instinct.

Honestly, Basic Instinct should be a Trait (for BLU) that you learn, since it has no effect when you're in a party and is just a tied up button when you are. Would also open the door to "Learning Traits" as a thing for BLU, which would be kind of cool in its own right.

[ForsakenRoe]

I think their point is this:

There are some bad WHM players because WHM is THE FF healer and they want to RP as a magical girl
There are some bad SCH players because they only signed up for the cute fairy
There are some bad AST players because the VFX are pretty and they're only on the role for the cool star VFX
There are some bad SGE players because they picked the job up, it started at 70, they completely ignored everything stated in the solo instance, and now they just don't have Kardia on their bars

TLDR players can be bad on any class, for any reason, and the circumstances of what level a job starts at or how many extra hurdles have to be jumped through to unlock it has little to no effect on it's average player skill level. DRK started at 30 and required the same 20 level grind as AST to get back to 'parity with the story'. I've heard stories that some people tried to play it as a DPS on launch, (ie, flat out refusal to use Grit to get aggro) because 'it was dps in 11'. People couldn't manage Darkside if their in-game life depended on it, which is why it's gone from 'drains MP' to 'pauses MP regen' to 'sod it, it's a flat 10% damage buff you have to TRY to lose' (seriously, in order to drop Darkside due to MP mismanagement now you have to use, and fail to pop like 3 TBNs in a row) We've all heard about how squishy they are/were, because people didn't want to use TBN, after it got spread that 'its a dps loss', which, yeh it was in certain circumstances, but if you can't say why it was a DPS loss without going to google for the answer, you're probably not going to be running into the situation that causes it to be a DPS loss, so start pressing it you're 8 mobs deep into a pull in Castrum Abania and you are about to die

[IDontPetLalas]

I think their point is this:

There are some bad WHM players because WHM is THE FF healer and they want to RP as a magical girl
There are some bad SCH players because they only signed up for the cute fairy
There are some bad AST players because the VFX are pretty and they're only on the role for the cool star VFX
There are some bad SGE players because they picked the job up, it started at 70, they completely ignored everything stated in the solo instance, and now they just don't have Kardia on their bars

TLDR players can be bad on any class, for any reason, and the circumstances of what level a job starts at or how many extra hurdles have to be jumped through to unlock it has little to no effect on it's average player skill level. DRK started at 30 and required the same 20 level grind as AST to get back to 'parity with the story'. I've heard stories that some people tried to play it as a DPS on launch, (ie, flat out refusal to use Grit to get aggro) because 'it was dps in 11'. People couldn't manage Darkside if their in-game life depended on it, which is why it's gone from 'drains MP' to 'pauses MP regen' to 'sod it, it's a flat 10% damage buff you have to TRY to lose' (seriously, in order to drop Darkside due to MP mismanagement now you have to use, and fail to pop like 3 TBNs in a row) We've all heard about how squishy they are/were, because people didn't want to use TBN, after it got spread that 'its a dps loss', which, yeh it was in certain circumstances, but if you can't say why it was a DPS loss without going to google for the answer, you're probably not going to be running into the situation that causes it to be a DPS loss, so start pressing it you're 8 mobs deep into a pull in Castrum Abania and you are about to die

Certainly, if we're looking only at healers those are definitely reasons, and even VFX aren't exclusive to AST if you recall the initial SGE demo a lot of people were oohing and aahing because "lazers" but the actual skills shown weren't that different from the existing healers - but they were pretty. Until they hit Holminster .

[elioaiko]

AST is stuck inbetween being the least played healer outside of raiding being a much better healer than WHM.

However, WHM is way way more popular than AST. There are reasons for this.

1. Perceived difficulty. At the end of the day, all healers are easy to play. Although I will agree to some degree that AST is more difficult to play, because that's because there's a lot to keep track off with no real connection between the abilities like the cards. WHM is the "easy" healer because it's kit has no depth whatsoever. I love me some WHM to turn off my brain, but the job is just basic in comparison.

2. WHM is a legacy job. WHM is the iconic healer job so of course people feel more attached to it since a lot of FF titles have characters in the WHM archetype.

Do I think AST should be buffed? No, because the job isn't weak. At the beginning of the expac yes, then they buff their numbers to compensate which only leads to more "AST is broken, do something SE!"

AST's main issue for me is how disjointed the job can be. The multiple timers on healing skills are fine but every expansion has destroyed and dumbed down the gimmick of the job, cards. We went from spread AoE, enhanced cards to building up for Divination, to just throwing them out whenever they come up. The cards mean less and less to the job's kit even though it's a huge part of its lore and aesthetic.

[IDontPetLalas]

AST is stuck inbetween being the least played healer outside of raiding being a much better healer than WHM.

However, WHM is way way more popular than AST. There are reasons for this.

1. Perceived difficulty. At the end of the day, all healers are easy to play. Although I will agree to some degree that AST is more difficult to play, because that's because there's a lot to keep track off with no real connection between the abilities like the cards. WHM is the "easy" healer because it's kit has no depth whatsoever. I love me some WHM to turn off my brain, but the job is just basic in comparison.

2. WHM is a legacy job. WHM is the iconic healer job so of course people feel more attached to it since a lot of FF titles have characters in the WHM archetype.

Do I think AST should be buffed? No, because the job isn't weak. At the beginning of the expac yes, then they buff their numbers to compensate which only leads to more "AST is broken, do something SE!"

AST's main issue for me is how disjointed the job can be. The multiple timers on healing skills are fine but every expansion has destroyed and dumbed down the gimmick of the job, cards. We went from spread AoE, enhanced cards to building up for Divination, to just throwing them out whenever they come up. The cards mean less and less to the job's kit even though it's a huge part of its lore and aesthetic.

It's interesting , that's honestly the first time I've seen someone express that AST feels disjointed to them - however you certainly may not be the only person. I don't feel that way, especially since I would disagree that "cards just get thrown out whenever" (at least in content when it really matters) . I feel that is truer of SCH though- however SCH mains might well fight me on that.

I would agree that AST isn't weak on healer however there is more to the job than just its role in healing 8 man parties, or buffing in 8 man parties, or even provides heals in 4 man parties, and this is where there could be some adjustments.

[Renathras]

Again, Roe, that's why I point out that it's not all.

But it's also irrelevant. The point is, I think there's an answer there to help AST. You can either agree, disagree, or agree with some provisions. I think this is a case where "don't want to agree/admit Ren has a point" is winning out over "Ren has a point...", since I haven't seen anyone actually argue against the idea itself, and you guys are making something akin to a semantics "argument" without actually arguing the point.

Point is: Players can deal with a very slight newb trap. Those who can't aren't doing Ultimates anyway, and if an AST uses one of their two Draws on themselves instead of a DPS in a 24 man, it's not going to be the end of the world if the change makes ASTs a lot more functional in the solo instances the game throws at us as part of various story and side-story content.

If you guys don't like the idea of AST cards having a boosted effect on the AST, then make an argument against that, not a perceived peripheral "gotcha" that isn't even part of the main argument and is severable from it in any case.

[Icecylee]

If you're worried about noob traps you could simply have the bonus only take effect when you're the only one in the party rather than when targetting yourself. Same outcome since MSQ doesn't put friendly duty NPCs in your party anyway.

[IDontPetLalas]

If you're worried about noob traps you could simply have the bonus only take effect when you're the only one in the party rather than when targetting yourself. Same outcome since MSQ doesn't put friendly duty NPCs in your party anyway.

Agreed, that's what I was suggesting,

[Renathras]

If you're worried about noob traps you could simply have the bonus only take effect when you're the only one in the party rather than when targetting yourself. Same outcome since MSQ doesn't put friendly duty NPCs in your party anyway.

My point was: I'm not really worried about noob traps.

[ForsakenRoe]

I was just saying what it looked like IDont's point was (to me at least), I have no problem with AST having some kind of solo-enhancing trait to make doing the MSQ less horrid. I've even suggested tying it to the lore via something similar to the level 60 quest instance, where the bad guy channels from all 6 of the constellations and stops time. So for example, they could make a trait where:

AST can have multiple cards on itself at once
AST's Draw CD is 1s while not in combat
If the AST has all 6 buffs on itself at once, they freeze in duration, giving a permanent buff to the AST. Using Divination or any card will remove the buff

By my maths, this changes AST's Malefic potency from 250 to (250 * (1.06 *3) * (1.03 * 3)), or 325ish. So, at the cost of 'all of the raidbuff utility', it can become SGE, kinda. Could let it work in raids too I guess. It'd remove the whole point of being an AST (cards and stuff) but at least it'd give the option to reduce the RSI

This is not a 'please do this SE' I would rather they come up with an actual non-garbo solution to the RSI issue the class faces