Healer Suggestions Megathread

[ForsakenRoe]

I foresee (heh) some potential issues I think

- Sects are never going to be 'intentionally' used because you'd be dumping all the cards in the 1min window, ala Misery. Even if we had staggered timers again for raidbuffs, most jobs naturally have their mini bursts line up at 1min, even in older versions of the game. This means you'd get into whatever sect you want (probably Stellar cos lodestars = damage), and then only ever use the cards in bursts of three, to instantly cycle you back into Stellar. While it's cool that the possibility of 'delay a card a sec to get a Noct shield out, then play and go into Stellar' exists, I think most people will just ignore that possibility

- While it's fine for the Astral side, the Opposition effects (mit and stuff) are not a good idea. It reminds me of SHB BRD, where the effect of Troubadour's mit was based on the song it was in at that point. While it was possible to play in a way that made you have 'the right song' up at the time when it was needed, ie swapping Army's and Mage's to get magic mit at the right time, it was evidently too much of a pain in the backside for most players hence it's removal and Troub being flat mit now. I imagine something similar would occur here, especially as it requires the card 'in the hand', not 'last played' (similar to 'the song you're currently playing' in BRD terms)

- What does 'damage snapshot' mean for Premonition? At first I thought it meant 'debuffs/dots applied' but Combust is gone, so my assumption is that it's Wildfire, but there's no duration listed. Is the only way to detonate it via using the Minor Arcana to trigger it?

- Support gameplay on this job, to me at least, looks to be 'dump everything in 1min window, use 45s downtime to regen MP' thanks to Mal/Grav having 0MP cost and the support stuff having 1000. In fact, something tells me the personal DPS of this design would actually be higher than the current, which would go against the intention of 'a class that is heavier on support buffs for those who don't like dealing direct damage as a healer'. I think the 'raid support based damage' numbers would be carried hard by the Lodestar refund system, rather than the buffs themselves

-If a Lodestar is equal to a Malefic (to make it damage neutral), MP management on this design is 'Use Asterism, immediately dispel with Astrodyne for a gain of 700MP, repeat every 10s', I think? Not sure about that one

There's some good things too though, I like Synastry actually having a use for example, and I like the idea that we use more Minor Arcana suits than just the Crowns. For Earthly Star, I've always wondered, we can have mobs unable to hit us with ground effects if we're not synced to a FATE they're in, or if we're on a gathering class so people can't MPK us. Would it not be a solution, potentially, to have ES just... not do damage to an enemy unless it's in combat with the AST? That way you can place it wherever, but if you want to do damage with it you have to pull the mob with something else first, which solves the DD issue I think

I think this is better than what we have, no doubt, but that's not a hard bar to clear. But at the same time, as an ex-HW-AST main this wouldn't entice me to return to it beyond occasionally messing about for memes

[ty_taurus]

I foresee (heh) some potential issues I think

Hmm... I think I failed to explain things well because I don't actually understand the concerns based on my perspective of the concept.

What I was going for with cards was that when you play a card, that effect is "stored" in your Hand until you use Intersection or Opposition. Intersection would be saved for buff windows, but it doesn't really matter when you play your cards as long as you have those effects stored in your Hand before its use. So I'm not really sure what we're dumping every 1 minute other than Intersection and Synastry. Lodestars are the same potency as Malefic here, so there's no real difference between casting Malefic and Casting something that summons a Lodestar... (except I just now realized, as I say that, something you didn't mention which is that the Hypergravity proc means Lodestars are no longer neutral and I broke that). Since I need to fix that, I'll put a pin in this AST idea for now and return to it another day when I can focus on it more.

Outside of that hiccup... I don't understand the Troubadour comparison. Troubadour's effect was based on something you functionally didn't control, which was the flow of songs. When I say "didn't control," what I mean of course is that the songs being in a rotation means you don't really choose which song to be in, thus Troubadour's effect was dependent on the timing of when the fight demanded it, making it hard to use. But here, you're effectively picking which 3 effects you want on Opposition to use at a later point.

As for the "damage snapshot..." What I mean is that the damage is calculated based on when Premonition is cast, not when the effect triggers. So if you cast Premonition during a buff window, then detonate it outside that buff window, the damage will have been calculated based on when you had those buffs.

[ForsakenRoe]

So, I think I at least understand the first part better. In TCG terms it'd be more like... when you Draw a card, it's in your hand (in ff14 terms, it's on the gauge). When you 'play' the card to gain it's effect you place it on the field (ff14 terms, you put a card effect on an ally). After playing it, it'd be like you also have a stored 'token' for that card, which is what's used when you cast Intersection/Opposition? I was under the impression it was based on the current 'next card you're going to play', hence the confusion. It makes a bit more sense if you have it based on cards you've already played but then the issue is that whatever order the cards are played in dictates the order of the Intersection effect, I'd assume?

My other point of potential misunderstanding is that I was under the assumption that you want to be in Stellar Sect as much as possible because of the Lodestar refunds. If you can get away with being out of it when it's not burstwindow time then that's less of an issue, but on first read, my assumption was that you'd want to always play cards in sets of 3, to keep yourself in Stellar (so the Intersection buffs also give a lodestar plus their own effect = more damage). And with that, playing any Umbral card on its own throws you out of Stellar, so you'd only ever want to play them as a set of 3 plays too. Opposition being based on 'token' gained from Umbral clears up the misconception I had on that part, just Umbral still seems odd to me.

Lastly, Premonition still didn't make sense to me. I get that it snapshots the damage at the time of cast. What I don't get is 'what damage?', does Premonition itself do damage (but at a later time), does it store up damage like a reverse Macrocosmos, is it a DOT, etc

Sorry if my being bad at words has put a damper on creativity. Something tells me that this is a really strong idea, but it being tied to AST is what's making it confusing for me. Like, if the terms were swapped around to suit a completely new healer we've never seen before, maybe it'd all click in my head suddenly

edit: forgot to mention on the first post, the Grand Trine thing is funny, because I was thinking while making the cards post from a couple weeks back (and never followed through with it): what if Synastry/Collective (one of the two) was like Spirit Link Totem from WOW, and equally distributed HP% between all allies (so tank selfheal like Equilibrium/Bloodwhetting/etc, would become AOE in a sense, and it'd technically be mit even on stackmarks, because tank Def stat from gear (and their personal CDs like Sheltron) would help everyone instead of just the tanks). Grand Trine is...not exactly that, but I think it's funny we both came to the conclusion that 'current Collective kinda sucks and could do with something more'. That's a skill I can get behind (or inside, as the case would be), it sounds great for multihit moves like Harrowing Hell and Styx

[Anxin]

Synastry could be interesting if you could, say, tether two players to each other so they shared their buffs with each other. A sort of targeted Dancer partner mechanic. So if you would apply a card to one player, both tethered players get the card. Apply a regen, both get the regen. If the player uses say, a critical hit skill, the tethered player will also get it. AST could be interesting if it focused on doling out various buffs among the party and doing its damage through party members, such as aoe that hits around a targeted ally instead of directly targeting damage skills on enemies.

[ty_taurus]

Questions

Let me give an example, which I think will explain things better. Let's say you use Astral Play 3 times in a row without touching any other card actions. This would mean you'd play Balance, Arrow, then Spear to your Hand (the gauge). Intersection "applies" whatever cards are in your Hand, which would then increase damage dealt by 3%, increase crit rate by 6%, and increase crit damage by 6% all at once for the party. Now, let's say you use Balance 3 times--using Astral Play, then spinning the sect wheel twice with Umbral Play or Minor Arcana until you have 3. That would increase total damage dealt by 9% for the party, but would have no effect on crit rate or crit damage. The same is true of Umbral cards and Opposition. Opposition will grant whatever defense buffs you stored in advance. Its effect isn't dependent on where the wheel is at the time of its use, it's dependent on what cards you added your your Hand when you use it. So if you stored 2 Boles and 1 Ewer, you know Opposition will grant a 10% mitigation and a 10% increased chance to score critical healing.

I know this could create some optimal Hands to build for, but there can also be some flexibility. For example, if you have a team with, say, a SAM, DNC, and WAR, Spears are a lot stronger during the buff window because those jobs have guaranteed crit attacks. Inversely, Spires are great for Scholar who can ensure a critical adloquium, while Boles are great with White Mage because Mom and Dad don't let White Mage play with mitigation.

Lodestar Generation is tied to a buff called Asterism, which you gain by casting the spell of the same name. It grants 15 seconds of Asterism and can be extended to a maximum of 30 through recasting. As long as you have that buff, you generate Lodestars on any action that's stated as generating Lodestars (Minor Arcana, Intersection/Opposition, etc.) Stellar Sect only allows the generation of Lodestars when casting Aspected Benefic or Aspected Helios, and if you're in Stellar Sect, you only get the initial heal and the Lodestar--you do not grant a regen or barrier. Neutral Sect applies all three effects. It's entirely possible that this interaction with those heals isn't balanced and needs rethinking, but you don't need to sit in Stellar to get any Lodestars from anywhere.

With Premonition, I think I said the potency was 330. So when you cast the spell, damage based on a 330 attack is calculated using your current buffs and is stored. When you cast Knave of Crowns, that detonates this stored damage, delivering it at a later time.

And don't be sorry. I don't mind having conversations about things like this. I'm happy to discuss and adjust things as we talk about them to help better balance things. But I'm really happy with the current concept of the card effects: Your solar cards boost damage dealt and reduce damage taken, your lunar cards increase critical hit rate for damage and for healing, and your celestial cards increase critical hit damage and critical healing output. I think that is a really solid spread for buff effects that are both largely balanceable while still being unique and yet easier to remember.

[kyyninen_kirahvi]

What I'd like to see is each healer being given it's own unique identity, and having it's abilities oriented around that identity.

For example, WHM is on the right track with the Lily system, but it could really do with a damage skill that uses a Lily and fuels the Blood Lily. WHM being the high DPS, low mobility healer is an identity I could see working, especially with WHM's focus on GCD healing. and an exceptionally good WHM should be able to make raw healing checks significantly easier, whilst also dealing the most personal damage of any healer.

SCH's identity could lean into that of the strategic healer. Things like Chain Strat and Expedient, as well as the faerie, play into this aspect, and their gameplay should reward planning and forward thinking. An exceptionally good SCH should be able to make mechanics that rely on heavy movement and shielding significantly easier, and have the most mobility of any healer.

AST's identity could be that of a healer with mastery over time, a job with a heavy focus on regenerative healing and damage buffs. An exceptionally talented AST should be able to utilise their numerous oGCD skills to heal more damage than a WHM over a longer period of time, but also buff the DPS of key members in a party and contribute the most group DPS of the healers, at the expense of having the lowest personal damage.

SGE's identity could be that of a healer that heals through dealing damage. It's skills could either shield and give resources for doing damage at a later point, or deal damage and also heal/shield as a side effect. An exceptionally talented SGE should be able to shield and protect their allies, whilst also maintaining damage uptime as much as possible.

I've been thinking it would be amazing if they reworked healers to each have a healing style.

WHM single target healer, AST regen healer, SCH AoE healer, SGE a real damage healer.

All of them could have the panic heal button but otherwise design the healing around the theme it's having. Sure it would mean having to relearn the classes but that would be better than now...

[Shurrikhan]

I've been thinking it would be amazing if they reworked healers to each have a healing style.

WHM single target healer, AST regen healer, SCH AoE healer, SGE a real damage healer.

Are those really even healing styles, though?

[IDontPetLalas]

I've been thinking it would be amazing if they reworked healers to each have a healing style.

WHM single target healer, AST regen healer, SCH AoE healer, SGE a real damage healer.

All of them could have the panic heal button but otherwise design the healing around the theme it's having. Sure it would mean having to relearn the classes but that would be better than now...

So as a WHM, I wouldn't want to have to single-target heal a party, as an AST I wouldn't want to lose those barrier options that I have - especially after having lost the option to choose my sects. I agree with SGE, while with SCH I would see it as the one that has the AI healer (the pet). Also- if by "panic" heal button you mean a strong single target heal, agreed, just as they all should have AOE heals.

[Aravell]

I've been thinking it would be amazing if they reworked healers to each have a healing style.

WHM single target healer, AST regen healer, SCH AoE healer, SGE a real damage healer.

All of them could have the panic heal button but otherwise design the healing around the theme it's having. Sure it would mean having to relearn the classes but that would be better than now...

I wouldn't call those a theme to follow, ST heals and AoE heals aren't a style, they're kind of essential for a healer to even do their job.

Healing styles would be something more like:
WHM burst healer, AST regen healer, SCH mitigation healer, SGE shield healer.

[Heroman3003]

It's impossible to design content that provides any sort of fair challenge to healers when you have, say, objective 'best mitigation' or 'best burst' healer. While current content does not do much to challenge them, I'd rather have the current situation than inevitable "AST is terrible, don't ever play it, it's worse than every other healer" scenario that such 'niche-based' design would bring. Welcome to the world of healers being balanced relative to one-another.