Healer Suggestions Megathread

[ForsakenRoe]

While others have some issues they're raising about various things (and I have my own but maybe another time), one thing I do want to draw attention to and commend is the Black Grimoire, and how it solves the main issue the old Cleric Stance had, while retaining it's 'feel'. Since Broil is unaffected, only the DOTs are, swapping to Black Grimoire is a 'only when you need to refresh a DOT' thing, not a 'camp this until you absolutely need to heal' thing. Further, rather than the 'all or nothing' effect of old Cleric, where you would either hit like a wet noodle without it or heal like a wet noodle with it, Black Grimoire would only boost the DOTs by 20p per tick each, which, yeh sure, adds up over a full fight if you forget to BlackGrim every single one, but one missed 'BlackGrim>apply DOT>WhiteGrim' is very low punishment. You could even drop the potency difference even further if you wanted, ie by raising the base potency of the DOT, so BG adds +10 per tick instead of 20 for example. Also, I like the idea of 'shielding access' being an opt-in thing, because sometimes you need the pure healing and being the shield-healer you just can't do anything about it. IE, SOS's first attack, that drops everyone to 1hp and you have to heal to full. You get 2 SCHs thanks to DF, it's kinda annoying to deal with, compared to having one of them being a WHM or AST

Bonus points for giving everything 'tactics' in the name I appreciate the theming. One thing I'd suggest though as a 'pet peeve' of sorts that cannot wait until 'maybe some other time': Black Grimoire/White Grimoire's CD of 3s, change it to 1 or 2s. Reason being, if you weave it hella late, do another Broil, then by the end of THAT GCD, it's still not up, forcing you to spend another GCD before you can swap again. It always feels kinda bleh to get 'locked out' re: stances, just look at Cleric. Making it eg 2s (or better yet, 1s so you can go GCD>Black>oops actually I wanted White>GCD) means you can freely go eg Black>DOT>White>Adlo>Black>DOT>White>Kaustra with a rhythmic flow to it, which I'd argue befits a master tactician effortlessly moving between offensive and defensive maneuvers

[Renathras]

Agreed.

I think (maybe?) I said it in my own post, but in case I didn't: I like both the FFXI callback and how the Grimoire's work in that they boost your healing or damage, but they don't gut the other one (e.g. you don't have a "stuck in Cleric" moment where your healing is nerfed and the party dies) and are more about augmenting your spells, and also have a nice short timer so you can quickly swap as needed, and that you have that one spell that lets you get a free "correct" Grimoire cast IN CASE you are stuck in, say, Black and you need a Succor suddenly. And like Roe said, you can dip into Black for the DoTs and then back out instead of having to live in Cleric for DPS back in ARR/HW.

It occurs to me that White Grimoire here works like Eukrasia sorta, but it's different enough (you have the casts, they aren't instant, and it's not consumed on a single use since it's a stance) to still have a SCH flare to it, which is great.

[ty_taurus]

While others have some issues they're raising about various things (and I have my own but maybe another time), one thing I do want to draw attention to and commend is the Black Grimoire, and how it solves the main issue the old Cleric Stance had, while retaining it's 'feel'. Since Broil is unaffected, only the DOTs are, swapping to Black Grimoire is a 'only when you need to refresh a DOT' thing, not a 'camp this until you absolutely need to heal' thing. Further, rather than the 'all or nothing' effect of old Cleric, where you would either hit like a wet noodle without it or heal like a wet noodle with it, Black Grimoire would only boost the DOTs by 20p per tick each, which, yeh sure, adds up over a full fight if you forget to BlackGrim every single one, but one missed 'BlackGrim>apply DOT>WhiteGrim' is very low punishment. You could even drop the potency difference even further if you wanted, ie by raising the base potency of the DOT, so BG adds +10 per tick instead of 20 for example. Also, I like the idea of 'shielding access' being an opt-in thing, because sometimes you need the pure healing and being the shield-healer you just can't do anything about it. IE, SOS's first attack, that drops everyone to 1hp and you have to heal to full. You get 2 SCHs thanks to DF, it's kinda annoying to deal with, compared to having one of them being a WHM or AST

Bonus points for giving everything 'tactics' in the name I appreciate the theming. One thing I'd suggest though as a 'pet peeve' of sorts that cannot wait until 'maybe some other time': Black Grimoire/White Grimoire's CD of 3s, change it to 1 or 2s. Reason being, if you weave it hella late, do another Broil, then by the end of THAT GCD, it's still not up, forcing you to spend another GCD before you can swap again. It always feels kinda bleh to get 'locked out' re: stances, just look at Cleric. Making it eg 2s (or better yet, 1s so you can go GCD>Black>oops actually I wanted White>GCD) means you can freely go eg Black>DOT>White>Adlo>Black>DOT>White>Kaustra with a rhythmic flow to it, which I'd argue befits a master tactician effortlessly moving between offensive and defensive maneuvers

If I may, I'm a bit curious on what you'd think about the experimental idea I had with white mage's lilies I added to the original post. This is the link also, for more accessibilities. Had an idea about tweaking certain white mage elements at put it together there. Let me know if you want to share your thoughts.

[ForsakenRoe]

Uhh, about to prog so I'll try to be brief:

- no MP costs on base moves is good for casuals and changes how you think about MP economy in terms of player's skill level (since it's only spent on the more powerful things like Flowering XYZ)
- giving WHM a mitigation (Lustrous Shield) is long overdue, I assume it's a cone, with the wide end of the cone pointed towards the WHM, in which case positioning could be an issue
- Tempest is cool, but if you're generating one of each petal once per cast of Dia (even if you clip it hard) you can potentially end up with the 'optimal gameplay' being to clip the DOT on purpose eg during raidbuff windows, I'd consider addressing that in some way, ie, my solution (surprise surprise) would be to make the Dia DOT duration shorter, and have the Water Petal activate when the DOT completes the duration, not when it's applied

- WHM Ley Lines is probably a disaster for PFs and the classic 'glare mage', we're greedy enough as it is. Making it a Det buff instead of flat % damage disincentivizes DHit melds which I think is a good idea (I don't like how DHit can be used by any role but Ten/Pie can't basically), but if we were to make it a Piety boost instead (and make PIE affect damage in the same way TEN does), it'd allow THAT skill to be the 'MP refreshing' skill rather than forcing Thin Air to be this Anatman-esque thing. Or you can keep it as that for downtime, I think something akin to Shifting Power from WOW could be cool, where it pulses damage as you channel it (so it can be used during uptime too). Alternatively, the WHM Ley Lines could have two effects when used, one that always increases your damage when you're in the 'outer' area (bigger than 6y please), and the closer to the middle you get the more MP per tick it restores? I'd prefer the PIE option though, cos that'd help incentivize the stat on the other healers too (and open up design options for their kit interplaying with PIE too)

also when did it get decided that I'm the arbiter of theorycrafts I don't like responsibility =(

[ty_taurus]

You don’t have to if you don’t want to. I can respect saying no. I just think you have good game design sense. Some notes though…

Lustrous Shield is meant to be more of a rectangle and not a cone. So it’d be easier to position, I think. There’s an OGCD called Propagation at the bottom of the “other” category that gives you 1 random petal that you’re missing at the time of its use, so that could resolve that problem. There should be a short cooldown on Tempest as well, but I’m wondering if I forgot that. Can look later when I’m not on my phone. The “When the DoT completes” is tricky because what happens if someone reapplies at 1 second remaining or no seconds remaining (right before the DoT falls off)?

EDIT: Added the missing cooldown.

I went for Det on Arcane Ward because it also increases healing output but if Pie does get reworked, I wouldn’t mind that, or even both. Arcane Ward is twice as large as Ley Lines, so I was thinking the bigger size would let it be more comfortable to try and work with, and if you have to leave it, it’s not that huge a loss especially because it’s a per minute rather than per 2 minutes, but also the idea of a 12 yalm field with a 6 yalm inner field is kinda cool.

[TheDustyOne]

I've made a few changes to my Scholar.

Fey Wind and Fey Covenant have been removed and replaced with Fey Expedience, furthermore, Angel's Flight is also removed.

Fey Expedience
Ability - 120s Recast
Reduces damage received by 10%, 20s
Increases movement speed, 10s

Renathras I think is right here, better to not fix what ain't broke. However, I'm still keeping Expedient attached to the fairy, as I feel it fits well as a Faerie buff and can increase reach to parties split across a large arena if the Faerie is placed correctly. Angel's Flight has been removed and Seraph can now use Fey Expedience normally.

White Grimoire and Black Grimoire recast timers have been reduced to 1s.

A nice QoL change to allow someone to quickly change their mind on whether to swap their stances back within a single GCD window.

Embrace and Angel's Kiss have been added to Faerie Actions.

Embrace
Pet Ability - 3s Recast
Restores target's HP with a potency of 200
*Cannot be placed on the hotbar*

Was always supposed to be here, I was just forgetful.

Angel's Kiss
Pet Ability - 3s Recast
Restores target's HP with a potency of 270
*Cannot be placed on the hotbar*

Seraph's version of Embrace, replaces Seraphic Veil.

As a quick aside to better explain my changes to Sacred Soil and why I'm largely sticking to my changes; it has to do with what I feel better fits the fantasy that XIV Scholar is trying to do with having a healing companion that you work alongside. Having a healing field that pulses from Eos that empowers your shields or a mitigation barrier emanating from Selene protecting you while you're fighting better adds to that sense of comradery, like you're working together to make something larger than the sum of your parts, and gives a better tactical feel compared to placing the field down yourself, as if you're a commander timing your prepared strategy with your squad.

You can kinda picture Selene protecting a party from a magic blast while the Scholar is slinging spells from within, or Eos sharing her aether with the Scholar and friendly White Mage to make their shields and heals just that bit stronger.

The visual for Fey Sanctum would largely be the same as Sacred Soil now, it's just being channeled by Selene in a similar manner to how an Astro might channel CU.

That said, it's nice to hear positivity around the Grimoire stances, when I was poking around FFXI sites to see how the job was implemented there, it stuck out as a fantastic way to combine the faeries and otherwise high ability count into fewer buttons while also giving it that 'Tactician' feel.

[TheDustyOne]

For Sage, I'll leave some quick general suggestions and ideas rather any concrete theorycrafting on what I'd like to see for the job. I'll probably end up making a full rework if I'm bored enough or can flesh out these ideas better, but here are some things I've had in mind for the job that I'd like to see.

1: More damage-to-heal spells like Pneuma
Pneuma looks and feels cool with a giant laser that massively heals and attacks at the same time, and it's a shame that this is the only ability that does this on Sage, and on such a long cooldown. Why not have a single target version that does a big heal on your Kardion ally? Or does a DoT and a strong Regen? If we're going to have a bunch of free oGCD heals that make us spam our nuke more, why not just make it into a new GCD that at least breaks up the Dosis spam? You could easily make a central mechanic around this as the primary heal resource similar to (or instead of) Addersgall.

2: More Kardia interactions
Something like being able to extend Kardia to all party members, we'll call it Pankardia as an example. Soteria is boring, but it does the job, and would combine with Pankardia for a rather beefy party regen. Or an ability or spell that changes the Kardia proc from a small heal to something else (a buff, barrier, etc.).

3: It should feel like a DPS in a healer suit
Moreso than the other healers anyway, it doesn't have any raidwide attack buffs like Astro and Scholar, and Kardia can do a lot to bring meaningful interactions between DPSing and healing. We could bring in something like Machinist Overheat as a mini burst mechanic that massively increases the APM for a short time and rapid-fire procs Kardia with it. A simple builder/spender gauge and a cooldown (Phlegma?) to build that gauge quickly. A massive (and bankable) burst combo that goes back to the first point and does big damage and big heals. A bunch of oGCD attacks and cooldowns that proc off your spells and heals to increase the APM and make it more exciting as a fast-paced job.

[ForsakenRoe]

You can kinda picture Selene protecting a party from a magic blast while the Scholar is slinging spells from within, or Eos sharing her aether with the Scholar and friendly White Mage to make their shields and heals just that bit stronger.

This line gives me an idea of reworking Dissipation's boost into something like 'Augmentation Tactics: The fairy tethers to the SCH, amplifying the SCH's healing actions (yes this means OGCDs too come on SE) by X%. While augmenting the SCH, the Fairy is unable to execute any other actions. Cost: 10 Fairy Gauge per 3 sec (same as Fey Union)'

So now there's another use for the gauge, Dissipation is a more integral part of the gameplay beyond '3 more Energy Drains in burst', and it doesn't lock you out of the fairy for 30s, only for 'as long as the tether is active', if you need to Seraph you can immediately break the tether off and do so

For Sage

Based on the job you did with SCH, I'll be looking forward to it, I've got my own ideas (including the very obvious addition of a Pankardia effect) but I'd like to see what you would do differently to mine

[ty_taurus]

I've got my own ideas (including the very obvious addition of a Pankardia effect) but I'd like to see what you would do differently to mine

Your comment on my white mage board regarding the DoT also gave me an idea that I like for sage as a more offensive healer. I'm casually working on revamping my ideas that I had on sage before with some updates, but here's there first stuff I've done on that so far (just because I think you might like the concept, not trying to seek approval).

EDIT: Finished the work on the sage theorycraft. I added it to the same board that I had my white mage theorycraft I shared in the past. Here is the link to it for accessibility, for whoever's interested.

To summarize, there's a much greater emphasis on making choices with your resources: MP, Addersgall, Addersting, and many more tools that interact with Eukrasia. There's a lot of slimming down the button total by hybridizing things with Eukrasia, and also generally cutting lots of extra healing actions and instead focus on making a smaller selection of healing resources that can be used far more frequently, particularly focusing on things that felt really iconic for Sage, like significantly shortening the cooldown on both Haima and Panhaima since they're both very unique and more interesting than something like Ixochole. I wanted to push how much could be pruned in regards to the volume of just healing actions, and there's more healing that can be done while doing damage, but it's also very possible to 'un-prune' if this seems too drastic. It's really just about experimenting and having fun with the idea since I can't actually test it.

In regards to the idea inspired by Roe's feedback (since I'm updating this post), the idea is to have a much shorter DoT duration, meaning it must be applied far more frequently, and adding a new spell called Katarrh that deals a flat damage that's lower than Dosis IV. If the target you use Katarrh on is afflicted with your DoT, however, Katarrh consumes your DoT and deals additional damage based on 50% of the total damage dealt by Eukrasian Dosis IV across it's duration. Because this removes the DoT from your target prematurely, there's a timing element involved in generally trying to use it right before your DoT is about to fall off, then immediately reapplying the DoT.

[ForsakenRoe]

Idk about the whole 'remove DOT and deal 50% of the damage it has already done, again' it seems kinda wonky to me. I think something more functional/better feeling would be something we've already got in the game, Iron Jaws. If Katarrh extends the duration of Myalgia (at the cost of 70 potency vs Dosis), I think it'd probably feel better that way. Since as it stands, if you were to be forced to use Katarrh and consume Myalgia at 9s (you need to heal, fight design, etc), you are punished both by losing an extra tick of the DOT, AND by the compiled damage being lower, whereas extending the DOT would only be 'you lost a tick'. Then again, maybe it can be argued that IJ is kinda button bloat and only justifies it's existence by the fact it extends two DOTs in one GCD, so... I think trying to come up with a way to make the DOT have some interplay with the rest of the class's gameplay is a good idea, but I'm not sold on if this is the way to go about it

Hmm, if SE's engine worked better, and we had something like WOW (haste stat increases speed of DOT ticks, they don't have to be bound to strict server tick cycle, etc), you could have Katarrh as 'increases the speed at which Myalgia deals damage by 50%, for 10 seconds' or such, to make it an upkeep buff you want to alternate with Dosis occasionally. Instead we'd have to use a workaround like 'Katarrh applies Katarrh to enemy' and 'If enemy has Katarrh, Myalgia's damage is increased by X% upon application', which is, lets be frank, way more boring. I dunno I think people will find the timing aspect to be super annoying more than fun, due to how fight mechanic/heal-pump-moment timings line up. We can already see people getting annoyed by how SE keeps making ASTs do their cards during a complex mechanic because 'we have to challenge the players during their 2min burst to test their skill' or whatever

What if you go back further design wise, and look at tying the DOT to the healing, rather than another damage tool? For example, if Katarrh adds a new buff to the SGE that allows a portion of damage caused by Myalgia to transfer as healing through Kardia for X number of ticks, or as a barrier instead of pure healing? Of course, this would have to be carefully balanced re: AOE, I see a Eukrasian Paroxysm that applies the DOT in an AOE. Although, if we were to say, it transfers 50% of the DOT damage, each time it ticks, that's 35p per enemy in the pull, right? So in a 10 mob pull, you'd still have the player ticking for less HOT than a simple Regen+Medica2 combo (150+250), and WAR gets to do that 400p, per mob, 3 times every 25s, so maybe it's fine

That is a horrible looking ramble, sorry I have worded this really badly, long story short, I think that adding a timing element to healers is probably fine as long as it's for the healing side of things, but adding one to the damage side means adding an incentive to say 'forget healing for a GCD I need to do the DOT timing thing' and potentially cause a wipe

EDIT: just thought of a simple way to have some element of 'timing' but still not too punishing to the player if they fail it (and it gives me an excuse to bring out mspaint):

Time it right, you get a little bonus potency, fail to refresh in time and you only lose 100p (and that value could be lower theoretically, to reduce punishment further). Due to the additional effects of each DOT conflicting with each other, you would alternate between them rather than 'put em all up at once' which would feel different to SCH's old style, should SE ever decide to give them back their DOTs