Did Zenos ruin Endwalker

[IkaraGreydancer]

The issue with Zenos was that he took away from the more political aspect of the story, which is one of the things that have elevated FFXIV above most video games stories.

Though in the end, the most disappointing thing was lack of option to just walk away from him rather than being forced to indulge in his fetish.

How exactly did he take away from the more political aspect of the story? Genuinely wondering.

Also is fighting is his "fetish" wouldn't it only be fair to say it's the WoLs "fetish" as well? Isn't that kind of the whole point?

[TheMightyMollusk]

How exactly did he take away from the more political aspect of the story? Genuinely wondering

Killing Varis and ditching the Empire, leaving it to fall into civil war and ruin. We can't even blame that on Fandaniel, since he met Zenos later.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Zenos not dying in Stormblood ruined everything he's touched since then.

[Payotz]

If we're talking about story, I think what "ruined" Endwalker was the pacing.

I don't really know what SE's obsession is with chores but it kills the stakes when you go into an area with the context being "there's no time to waste" and then the game tells you "lol no, the ship is broke kekw, go ask people what's wrong" despite it being the actual end of the world.

It's the same problem I had with the Talos Minecart portion in Shadowbringers. Our ship crashed, we're being pursued blah blah blah but we have to help this rando with his lack of closure and the cherry on top is, we solved it with a Deus Ex Machina.

There's a lot of times in the MSQ where I wish they would just get on with it. It's literally just padding.


God the moon bunny portion pissed me off so much.

[EliaStormblade]

If we're talking about story, I think what "ruined" Endwalker was the pacing. I don't really know what SE's obsession is with chores but it kills the stakes when you go into an area with the context being "there's no time to waste" and then the game tells you "lol no, the ship is broke kekw, go ask people what's wrong" despite it being the actual end of the world.. It's the same problem I had with the Talos Minecart portion in Shadowbringers. Our ship crashed, we're being pursued blah blah blah but we have to help this rando with his lack of closure and then we solved it with a Deus Ex Machina.

There's a lot of times in the MSQ where I wish they would just get on with it. It's literally just padding.

People always point to the trolley portion in Amh Araeng, but Kholusia pt2 is pretty guilty of that as well. In fact, it has "the epic music playing while you're forced to do chores for the Tholl" thing too. Just like Labyrinthos pt2 has that going on, and I'm not sure why they chose to make the same mistake twice.

[Payotz]

People always point to the trolley portion in Amh Araeng, but Kholusia pt2 is pretty guilty of that as well. In fact, it has "the epic music playing while you're forced to do chores for the Tholl" thing too. Just like Labyrinthos pt2 has that going on, and I'm not sure why they chose to make the same mistake twice.

Oh yeah I hated that too. There's just a lot of it sprinkled in that it's just so fucking boring.
Like jesus please. Cut out the fluff and relegate it to sidequests or something.

[EliaStormblade]

Oh yeah I hated that too. There's just a lot of it sprinkled in that it's just so fucking boring.
Like jesus please. Cut out the fluff and relegate it to sidequests or something.

You're not wrong. Even as someone who likes the story, there are indeed moments of iffy pacing. The thing is that they've always been there, which a lot of people overlook. Not to say that makes that suddenly a good thing, but it's basically a staple of XIV writing. Not like I'm against a bit of downtime either. Buildup and climax are a very normal part of writing, but XIV does have a habit of reaaaally stretching it out.

[Payotz]

You're not wrong. Even as someone who likes the story, there are indeed moments of iffy pacing. The thing is that they've always been there, which a lot of people overlook. Not to say that makes that suddenly a good thing, but it's basically a staple of XIV writing. Not like I'm against a bit of downtime either. Buildup and climax are a very normal part of writing, but XIV does have a habit of reaaaally stretching it out.

I don't think a bad element being a "staple" is proper justification of it being there. A lot of things that were removed were "staples of XIV" at one point.

[Boblawblah]

I'll bite a bit.

I don't think Zenos ruined Endwalker. I think a lot of people really like him, and enjoyed seeing his conclusion (please god, let that be his conclusion). I'll admit, him showing up and having a couple of the best quotes in the expansion doesn't hurt as well:

"I assume this is your prey. But why does it still live? Surely it is no match for you"

"I would have thought you to be above something so banal as despair. Am I mistaken?"

Especially after 20 hours of "oh woe is us", having him just laugh it off was pretty funny.

[Renathras]

I'll bite a bit.

I don't think Zenos ruined Endwalker. I think a lot of people really like him, and enjoyed seeing his conclusion (please god, let that be his conclusion). I'll admit, him showing up and having a couple of the best quotes in the expansion doesn't hurt as well:

"I assume this is your prey. But why does it still live? Surely it is no match for you"

"I would have thought you to be above something so banal as despair. Am I mistaken?"

Especially after 20 hours of "oh woe is us", having him just laugh it off was pretty funny.

Agreed.

I thought in SB he was a boring Saturday morning cartoon villain (you fight him, HAVE to beat him or the solo duty fails, but then he just beats you in a cutscene; until he merges with a super powerful Primal dragon, and only THEN can you beat him? really?), but in EW, they actually made his character what they SHOULD HAVE in SB. He had nuance - you don't have to like it, but he DID - and his positions were such that they made sense in a very nihilistic way - and there are people that ARE that nihilistic. The conclusion was the best part, though. When everyone's down and the situation seems hopeless, he basically flies to the end of the universe and shatters the wall of a pocket dimension to come in and ask you why you haven't already killed the final boss. Dude's like "You kill gods and stuff, why is this thing still alive, man?". I wasn't expecting ZENOS of all people to come in and be my personal cheerleader, but the best part is: It was totally in character.

The final fight with him - again, some people hated it, some people loved it - but was completely in character and closed out his story. For a man who wants nothing but to fight an equal and face death, battling to the death at the edge of existence with that infinite plane and distant sun as backdrop is the way to go.

As a person who hated Zenos in SB and the bits of him in ShB, I thought EW is what he should have been all along and was like "WHERE WAS THIS FOR THE LAST TWO EXPANSIONS?!", and the conclusion was great.

.

No, Zenos did NOT ruin EW, and EW wasn't "ruined" at all. I do agree with Payotz, though, that there were pacing issues. The worst offender was Labyrinthos at the end of the game before going to Ultima Thul. That was the only place I felt the pacing was SUPER jarring and just completely conflicted with the narrative at the time that we were racing against the clock to save the world/universe.