So the 6.4 PvP FL changes....

[ptown2]

DRK Salted still going to be problematic, even if you nerfed their damage by 50%. Which they didn't. But hey, at least the BH5 kill squads will win a little bit faster in Seal Rock and Onsal now - so that's something at least.

The damage isn't the problem, it's the massive pull-in.

Until animation locks for certain actions/effects (such as the pull-in, which has 0.5 secs) are entirely removed or disregarded for PvP then this will always be a problem. Otherwise all what they did was make melees and tanks 10% less tankier lol. (Still not solving the main problem)

[SorrowsEnd]

Miracle Of Nature is still in the game unfortunate.

[Rexxus]

The damage isn't the problem, it's the massive pull-in.

Until animation locks for certain actions/effects (such as the pull-in, which has 0.5 secs) are entirely removed or disregarded for PvP then this will always be a problem. Otherwise all what they did was make melees and tanks 10% less tankier lol. (Still not solving the main problem)

Absolutely correct.

Without changing the way salted works, the meta won't be changed in the slightest.

And if anything, the DR changes have less of an impact on DRK since they spend a percentage of the match unkillable anyway(as does PLD).

[Fourbestintoner]

Laughing at how they keep ignoring living dead and salted being drk actual issues.

[OskarXCI]

I think they realized the problems with Secure if they thought there was a need to reduce the points needed to win on Seal Rock and Onsal Hakair. I just wish it didn't take this long for them to do anything.

The problem has been there for Secure ever since they added respawn invincility with 4.56. While it didn't affect the other maps that much, it more or less ruined the intended match flow on Secure due to how close three of the six bases are to the spawn points.

[Elfidan]

Honestly a lot of the problems with job specific abilities come from over population of those jobs in a single team. Getting ping ponged by 5-8 DRK on a 24 man team with no Diminishing Returns blocking the draw in spam and complete loss of control feels bad. I don't think most of these changes really change anything. I welcome any nerf to WHM but am disappointed at the complete overlooking of MON once again. all in all the lowered defense on melee and tanks should be a good thing. Why are they messing with WAR though?

[Cidel]

Wasn't holding my breath for much of anything for the specific Frontlines damage modifiers with the dev's track record, but now that I've seen them- ehh, it's a start.

-SCH's damage nerf being reverted was overdue. They erroneously got lumped in with SMN and WHM's 10% damage nerfs (their "solution" to their LBs getting stacked). The fabled "12 SCH DoTs killing entire teams before they can elixir" has nothing on 3+ DRKS coordinating draw-ins.

-DRK's new 10% damage reduction is a misplaced bandaid on the actual issue. Sooo... I guess their LBs will hurt less? It looks like WAR got the SCH treatment where they had to get caught in the nerf because reasons. I'm assuming the devs would try and justify it with something about their HP-siphoning skills being too good in large crowds or some jazz...

-Melees and tanks losing 10% of their current defense modifier is a start. A few of the melee DPS like NIN probably could have stood to lose 5-10% more. However, also increasing most ranged DPS' damage taken by 5% seems to almost negate the whole point.

-DNC and RDM getting a 5% defense modifier seems overdue. I also don't know how big of a difference it'll make, but with the other ranged jobs getting their defense nerfed, this at least puts them a cut above the rest. lolSGE.

- I understand the +15 seconds to DRG, SAM and WHM (especially WHM), but DNC's LB being affected is a mystery so far. Unless their new 5% damage reduction is expected to make a huge difference, their LB is one of the best opportunities to take out a DNC, and shouldn't be used carelessly anyway.

- The duration of the general CCs being reduced by 25% makes me raise an eyebrow. Like, I understand a second being shaved-off of CCs that last 4 seconds (not very many), but can you even have a debuff that lasts a fraction of a second? Is a 2 second stun now going to only last a second and a half? (can they do that?) I don't think I ever seen or noticed a buff or debuff active for any amount of time that wasn't a whole number.

-Mount debuff nerf is good for the people who have no sense of awareness of their surroundings, I guess? Just eliminates punishing people stupid enough to be/get on their mount with enemies nearby.

- I guess Frontlines matches will be quicker in general with Onsal and Seize getting point caps lowered. I'm assuming the accumulation of points from ice in the new Shatter map will be fast enough to justify the higher point cap.

-Good riddance, Secure.

[BaroLlyonesse]

- I understand the +15 seconds to DRG, SAM and WHM (especially WHM), but DNC's LB being affected is a mystery so far. Unless their new 5% damage reduction is expected to make a huge difference, their LB is one of the best opportunities to take out a DNC, and shouldn't be used carelessly anyway.

Because it's a Draw-In. The better question is why other Draw-In's aren't affected.

The mount change is effective because first, you can't see everywhere all at once, no matter how good you are, and there are people with attacks that make it much, much harder to take advantage of sudden stun/heavy hits on people that are on mounts. It's not a 'git gud' issue as much as you think, unless your FL environment is much less aggressive.

I see we are still ignoring MCH. If nothing else, can we please get rid of the 'you don't interrupt by moving and here's a cast time' issue?

[Llynethil]

The mount change is effective because first, you can't see everywhere all at once, no matter how good you are, and there are people with attacks that make it much, much harder to take advantage of sudden stun/heavy hits on people that are on mounts. It's not a 'git gud' issue as much as you think, unless your FL environment is much less aggressive.

If you got mount slowed often in fl, you do need to git gud, I never have it happen to me because map exists and I sprint whenever I'm near enemies instead, that change is 100% skill issue based.

[IkaraGreydancer]

If you got mount slowed often in fl, you do need to git gud, I never have it happen to me because map exists and I sprint whenever I'm near enemies instead, that change is 100% skill issue based.

I don't think you know what 100% really means. Correct me if I'm wrong but the map doesn't always show 100% where peope are. Not to mention situations where running may not be the fastest/best way to get out of an area/fight.

There's some nusance there for it to not "100%" be a skill issue. Just because you personally may not have these encounters doesn't mean others don't nor does it mean they're bad players.