What is the point of arguing whether having less grind or more grind is good design?

[dspguy]

In my opinion, the only true "unique" relic was Eureka. There was no way to earn it outside of running that content. Sure, Bozja had a few steps "locked in" but most of it was optional and could be earned elsewhere:

- ARR: run dungeons, FATEs, grind tomestones for various tokens (Alexandrite maps, oils, atma books, etc), run old content for light farm.
- HW: run dungeons, FATEs, grind tomestones for various tokens (aether oil, umbrite, ink, clusters, beast tribe items), run more old content dungeons/trials
- SB: Eureka only
- ShB: Grind tomestones from running old content, earn tokens in Bozja or from FATEs, run leveling roulette, run ARR/HW/SB 24-man raids for tokens and HoH for tokens

Other than SB, all of the other ones focus around running old content... so how is grinding tomestones for the EW relic really any different than these previous relics? Instead of grinding 1500 of them, do you want to buy 5 100 tomestone items, 2 250 tomestone items and 1 500 tomestone item and turn them into various NPCs to progress the quest?


Same with HW and ARR relics. Much of those were all about obtaining certain items by either spending poetics or beast tribe quests, etc. ARR mixed in FATEs, Levequests, etc. It was sort of a "capstone" questline.
However, SB relics remain the only relic that has the entire content all wrapped up in those four Eureka zones.

[CelestiCer]

Other than SB, all of the other ones focus around running old content... so how is grinding tomestones for the EW relic really any different than these previous relics? Instead of grinding 1500 of them, do you want to buy 5 100 tomestone items, 2 250 tomestone items and 1 500 tomestone item and turn them into various NPCs to progress the quest?

Because Endwalker's Relic grind to me came with so little Content with it compared to the previous Relic grind of Shadowbringers. No furniture, no extra glamour, no cards, no raids, the only thing we do is tome farm with my job made less engaging in EW. With the difficulty being non-existing? it truly feels like I achieved nothing. Just a shiny weapon glam that I personally don't even like that doesn't even increase my ilvl, so that's also pointless.

Making a grind tedious and difficult for the sake of making it tedious and difficult is not good, but they could have done way more. EW's relic grind has at least compared to the previous expansion of SHB amounted to laziness and just a lot less of everything to go with obtaining a Relic. That's how it is different to me, it's less fun, less rewarding and a lot more boring to do.

[Blossoming]

I think I’m just so bored of really only having daily roulettes to do, I don’t even do them anymore I just sort of think about it…..then just am like nah and log off and tbh I hate that it’s how I feel atm because I really want to enjoy XIV but it’s been so hard for me lately

[Zeastria]

I think I’m just so bored of really only having daily roulettes to do, I don’t even do them anymore I just sort of think about it…..then just am like nah and log off and tbh I hate that it’s how I feel atm because I really want to enjoy XIV but it’s been so hard for me lately

Repetitiveness does kill the fun.
When there is little to do - its better to do other stuff

[Blossoming]

Repetitiveness does kill the fun.
When there is little to do - its better to do other stuff

Like what, it’s all the same just a different reskin and Ilvl. I was excited for Sanctuary island but it didn’t really feel satisfying to me as much as I tried to love it since I was obsessed with animal crossing. I even started just making up my own player held events which went pretty well and had large turnouts. I actively raided since ARR with the same group mostly and then shb came along and most of the people I knew got tired of the game and left, I stuck around and still am but just kind of feeling it now myself since EW. I wish there was some varying content that was targeted more towards mid level groups

[Zeastria]

Like what, it’s all the same just a different reskin and Ilvl. I was excited for Sanctuary island but it didn’t really feel satisfying to me as much as I tried to love it since I was obsessed with animal crossing. I even started just making up my own player held events which went pretty well and had large turnouts. I actively raided since ARR with the same group mostly and then shb came along and most of the people I knew got tired of the game and left, I stuck around and still am but just kind of feeling it now myself since EW. I wish there was some varying content that was targeted more towards mid level groups

I was more thinking about doing other stuff in real life or play other games until new content comes....
I know people who only play to chat with people ingame ..( that's self made content too).

[Blossoming]

I was more thinking about doing other stuff in real life or play other games until new content comes....
I know people who only play to chat with people ingame ..( that's self made content too).

I work a pretty busy job and I have a toddler but even so XIV still bores me with what little free time I do get. I’ve currently been actively playing XI and ESO again, even tried WoW for the first time tbh only reason I keep my sub is because I do run a venue and to keep my house. If it wasn’t for that I’d probably be unsubscribed atm

[Vencio]

How far are we from FanFest + next expansion?

I can relate to Blossoming,

Otherwise we’re in for a long drought period with this game throughout the Summer & likely rest of Fall.

[Avoidy]

I agree, it's pointless. Unironically if you want engaging content or a sense of meaningful character progression and you're "caught up" in XIV, just end your subscription and play something else. I've started playing an old school mmo private server and the difference between that game and this one is like night and day. The game itself is harsher but the community formed around it is way better, and every class brings something unique to the party and feels valued and necessary, and there are resources that players actually read and use because they're not coddled 24/7 by people who enable them and carry them through content. I signed out of that game and came back to this one for an hour to do a puppets bunker and jesus christ man. The queue reset 3 times because our people can't even be bothered to click commence, and then the run itself took like 50 minutes because everyone played like they were asleep, and at one point we had to beg a tank to just... press provoke...

I know it's a bit off topic but MAN it's so bad, just play something else. Fuck it.

[Knot_D]

Go back to Lost Ark, you know that game is better to play don't you?