A comparison of combat content in Endwalker.

[DixieBellOCE]

Shadowbringers:
13 Dungeons
7 Trials
8 Extreme Trials
12 Raid Fights
3 Alliance Raids
2 Exploratory Zone Maps with 2 optional raids and a savage raid

Endwalker:
11 Dungeons (Will be 13 in 6.5)
5 Trials (Will be 7 in 6.5)
5 Extreme Trials (Will be 7 in 6.5)
8 Raid Fights (Will be 12 in 6.4)
2 Alliance Raids (Will be 3 in 6.5)
1 Criterion Dungeon (will be 2 in 6.4)
1 Deep Dungeon
2 Ultimate Raids (One was delayed from Shadowbringers due to Covid)

Looking at this, Subjectively the content has not changed, the only difference being two completely unique zones being removed and replaced with 2 dungeons, and the removal of the optional extreme trial.

Something does feel off about Endwalker.
It is not the amount of content released, it is the Quality of the content.

The extra content added (criterions) were supposed to replace two exploratory zones and an optional Extreme trial, but the content and its reward structure have fallen short of the expectations of the players that enjoy that content, and is basically abandoned and never touched by the player base.

The latest live letter gave no indication that this next Criterion Dungeon will even have updated rewards to create some longevity for the content, which after the backlash of the first one, is severely disappointing.

My personal hope is that Criterions get dropped completely come 7.0, and the development team go back to creating long lasting content that players will go back to like Eureka and Bozja that have rewards that are worth the time investment, like the Elemental Armor sets.

Some people don't like these zones, and that is completely fine. People here have a saying: 'not all content is developed for you' and that holds true for every aspect of the game, Do something else if you do not enjoy them, and let the people that do enjoy them, have their content.

[Jojoya]

You forgot Eureka Orthos. We didn't get a Deep Dungeon in Shadowbringers.

Something does feel off about Endwalker.
It is not the amount of content released, it is the Quality of the content.

Fair enough opinion. But you pinpoint why the quality is off to you?

Is it rewards?

Is it job design making jobs less satisfying to play?

Are dungeon/raid designs getting too formulaic?

[DixieBellOCE]

You forgot Eureka Orthos. We didn't get a Deep Dungeon in Shadowbringers.



Fair enough opinion. But you pinpoint why the quality is off to you?

Is it rewards?

Is it job design making jobs less satisfying to play?

Are dungeon/raid designs getting too formulaic?

Oh true, Orthos! Ill add that to the list, that balances the content releases even more.

The main issue i am having with the expansion in general is the lack of direction with the content.
The content is there, but there is no reason to do any of it.

Small things like putting the relic questline into variant dungeons, would have rejuvenated dead content, and given people a reason to actually do that content.
Instead its 'sit in limsa and do roulettes'.

[Renathras]

You forgot Eureka Orthos. We didn't get a Deep Dungeon in Shadowbringers.



Fair enough opinion. But you pinpoint why the quality is off to you?

Is it rewards?

Is it job design making jobs less satisfying to play?

Are dungeon/raid designs getting too formulaic?

The big problem with Criterion (and Deep Dungeon 31+ floors) is you have to form parties to do them. Eureka/Bozja was content you could enter/exit, drop in/drop out, do a little or a lot, interact with tons of people or none, and still progress your character and goals. DD and Criterion you have to make a premade party of you +3, and for the hardest tiers, really want to have a coordinated group, if possible comms, and maybe take your 8 man Static and split into two Light Parties, and be committed to the length of a run.

It doesn't really have a lot of longevity, either, since once you've done it, you've done it. While that's arguably true of Eureka/Bozja, there's a lot more to do in them, and they even have their own raids (OP forgot Bozja had 3; CLL, DR/DR(Sav), Dal). Ideally future Exploration Zone content will learn a bit from the past and not repeat mistakes made, but regardless, it was good content with lots of longevity since there's always something to go back in them for. Bozja is especially good at this since it could also be used as a de-facto Deep Dungeon for leveling alt Jobs as well as the Relic, cosmetics, and other rewards to get from it.

I tend to solo or DF (not PF) stuff and don't have a Static, so what I get out of Deep Dungeons is only the first 30 floors, and of Criterion, I just soloed the very intro level to get all the unlocks, then the content was dead to me since I couldn't do any of the higher tiers.

I think that there's also something to be said for being in a large shared zone to build community that you just don't get with Criterion/DD where you just zone in/out and don't interact with anyone other than your preformed party.

[Rhysati]

You forgot Eureka Orthos. We didn't get a Deep Dungeon in Shadowbringers.



Fair enough opinion. But you pinpoint why the quality is off to you?

Is it rewards?

Is it job design making jobs less satisfying to play?

Are dungeon/raid designs getting too formulaic?

You weren't asking me, but I would say: Yes, Yes, and Yes. I pretty much only log in on occasion to keep my house for the future as the content right now is excruciatingly boring to me.

The story I've thought was awful since the release of the expansion, especially coming off the amazing story in Shadowbringers. The classes have never been in a less fun state or more homogenized and simplified. The dungeons are so basic and boring that you run from point A to point B, AOE everything down and repeat until you are done in 20 minutes.

The whole game badly needs a refresh on how things are done to give us something new and fresh. Instead it keeps doubling and tripling down on tired mechanics, bad class design, and now a depressingly bad story.

[Elissar]

My bet for 7.0: meaningful outworld content.
BTW, it's not fair to compare trials side-by-side like you did. Extremes and Ultimates are completely different in terms of design and development.
I hope they add one ultimate on the next exp and one exploratory zone instead of two ultimates with one epic and one with some weird bugs.

[DixieBellOCE]

My bet for 7.0: meaningful outworld content.
BTW, it's not fair to compare trials side-by-side like you did. Extremes and Ultimates are completely different in terms of design and development.
I hope they add one ultimate on the next exp and one exploratory zone instead of two ultimates with one epic and one with some weird bugs.

DSR was supposed to release in SHB but was delayed due to covid.
But yeah, Endwalker, as it is right now, has more content than Shadowbringers, but the content really doesn't have the quality and longevity of the older content.

[VelKallor]

It is not the amount of content released, it is the Quality of the content

Ive enjoyed all of it, Myths of the Realm was..joyous, enjoyable, high spirited, it was FUN, I cant wait to see what comes next.. It wasnt some "big bad", we had the Twelve come to play. Hell, the music alone was Lord of the Dance on steroids, absolutely pumping all the way.

The dungeons have been a load of fun as well, the reaper based one was way cool.

long lasting content that players will go back to like Eureka

A few. Not a lot.

[DixieBellOCE]

It is not the amount of content released, it is the Quality of the content.

Ive enjoyed all of it, Myths of the Realm was..joyous, enjoyable, high spirited, it was FUN, I cantw aiut to see what comes next.. It wasnt some "big bad", we had the Twelve come to play.

The dungeons have been a load of fun as well, the reaper based one was way cool.



A few. Not a lot.

That's just it though, Some of the content is fantastic, Myths of the Realm is one of my favourite parts of the expansion so far, and i cannot wait to see where the story goes.
But the content is once a week, after that you get nothing for doing it.

And yeah, Not everyone enjoys Eureka, but its still more active than current expansion content like Variant Dungeons.
Most people just get the elemental armor then stop, which is perfectly fine, the armor is well worth the ~5 hour time investment.

[ZephyrMenodora]

Ive enjoyed all of it, Myths of the Realm was..joyous, enjoyable, high spirited, it was FUN, I cant wait to see what comes next.. It wasnt some "big bad", we had the Twelve come to play. Hell, the music alone was Lord of the Dance on steroids, absolutely pumping all the way.

The dungeons have been a load of fun as well, the reaper based one was way cool.



A few. Not a lot.

I've really enjoyed all the EW and post-EW content also. So I don't have a quantity or quality issue.

I personally have no interest and would have reworked criterion dungeons into more roulette dungeons, but that's mostly a nitpick.