The Variant Dungeon Formula - only aesthetics and enemies will change

[Eisi]

So we now know about the Variant Dungeon formula:

All Variant Dungeons will have one NPC to explore the place with you.

All Variant Dungeons will have exactly three pathways at the beginning to choose from, each leading to a hallway with two bosses.

The first boss on each path is the same for all paths but with varying mechanics.

There is a fifth, hidden boss that requires you to solve a riddle by running the dungeon multiple times to find different clues in the logbook entries.

There are exactly 12 entries to get by running various modifications of the three routes, triggered by certain actions.

So the only things that will really change between the Variant Dungeons are the mobs and bosses and the aesthetics. The formula itself is always the same, just like it is with normal dungeons. So don't expect to be surprised by anything other than that.

[Mikey_R]

How would you have changed things out of curiosity?

[Eisi]

How would you have changed things out of curiosity?

Just not hamstrung myself with such a strict formula when there's no reason to.

I would have first created the lore for the place and then designed layout and bosses accordingly. Meaning that some paths would cross, sometimes we would be alone, sometimes we would be accompanied by a team to send to different places to maybe trigger certain switches opening paths, which on multiple playthroughs could lead to significant differences, sometimes we would have a hallway first and then only two paths to choose from, sometimes one of those would split again, sometimes we would first fight a boss, the way in which we defeat them would trigger different paths, sometimes there would be a central ring from which several different pathways split that would open or close others, sometimes you would choose one path and you could fall off it onto another path, sometimes you would get swallowed by a giant fish if you linger too long with the boat on the lake, letting the rest of the dungeon play out inside the belly of the fish, sometimes you would have to sit in front of a shrine to pray, falling into a dreamlike trance that either lets you enter the past, or a dreamworld or shift through walls, sometimes I would have hidden pathways inside a building that you would only see from one pathway, but just learn through this visual queue and then access from another pathway, sometimes I would let you fall into a trap, where if you fall down left you would become paralyzed by the spikes on the ground, leading you to get kidnapped by a group of bandits to a different location where once you wake up you have to fight your way out, while if you fall down on the right, you will evade the spikes and be able to continue exploring the underground space there, stuff like that.

You might say, well that's meaningless, at the end of the day it's just another dungeon. But I think with such a clear formula, we feel it more. With so strict a formula, a place can do so much less to make it feel distinct and real.

[Oizen]

Did you expect FFXIV to magically stop playing it safe and listen to feedback?

[Eisi]

Did you expect FFXIV to magically stop playing it safe and listen to feedback?

They didn't play it safe with the Sil'dihn Subterrane.

[Mikey_R]

Just not hamstrung myself with such a strict formula when there's no reason to.

The problem is, everything you have said is exactly what you have described in your first post, just laid out differently.

Having crossing paths, where I assume you can go from route 1 to route 2 rather than continuing on route 1, is just another choice you can make. Do I flip the switch right or left? Having a different party to command is the same. You tell them to do something, they do it, your path changes, switch left or right and this point continues.

Even something like a surprise trap where you get ambushed, it is still a choice. You get caught the first time, but next time, you don't, switch left or right.

The difference with what you want is you do not want the choices as obvious the first time you go through. You want that surprise factor as you go through the first time on a pathway, which then ceases to be a surprise the next time you take that path.

So really, all we are looking for is different themes for the dungeon. Which is what we are going to get. This is only the second variant dungeon after all, who knows what will come in the future.

[EliaStormblade]

I don't really see much of an issue with it as is, just the rewards/longevity.

I'm not that charmed with the variant scheme myself, though. I wish they'd ditch the meme "quadrillion branching paths" thing and just did something else with it.

[RyuDragnier]

I don't really see much of an issue with it as is, just the rewards/longevity.

I'm not that charmed with the variant scheme myself, though. I wish they'd ditch the meme "quadrillion branching paths" thing and just did something else with it.

They should probably look at the old GW2 dungeons for examples. Ascalonian Catacombs, the first dungeon you can enter, has one of 3 NPCs you can side with at the beginning, which changes how the dungeon progresses. You enter some same rooms, but things change, including enemy locations and bosses. They could do something similar with the Variant dungeons. You choose 1 of 3 NPCs at the beginning to go through the dungeon with (they're basically the 3 path choices). You can have small variations in each section, but it makes every path fresh.

[Jeeqbit]

I suppose I just expected it to be exactly like this. The only thing I was expected to change was the boss names, mechanics, visual design of the area and boss and the lore.

[Eisi]

The problem is, everything you have said is exactly what you have described in your first post, just laid out differently.

I don't see why that's a problem. Much less one that would need to be solved by a super strict formula which doesn't allow for any alteration in the number of choices, the way in which choices have to follow other choices or what consitutes a choice to begin with.

You call it a problem, I call it the spice of life. Sure, it's only gonna be a surprise the first time around, but that's literally every game. With the established formula there's already so much less each variant dungeon can do to distinguish itself, so much more I already know before even going in.