Samurai AoE

[Ransu]

Hopefully they merge guren and w/e the single target skill and shoha and shoha 2 into one skill. No reason for them to be multiples.



Oh, and removing namakiri and putting midare back to its pre-6.0 potencies would be nice.

Can we not take away cool attacks? I like namikiri.

Nah, kaiten was fine going. It added no depth to the job.

So... you never actually played sam lol.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Can we not take away cool attacks? I like namikiri.



So... you never actually played sam lol.

Played it for Sigma Savage, all of Eden, and this tier. My information is public. Kaiten was used for every midare and every higanbana. there was no choice, no depth, just make sure you have kenki. I can count the number of times I didn't have kenki for it on both hands, over 5 years? almost 6 (at least in savage when it mattered and not during low level stuff when kenki buildup was godawful).


Namikiri is literally just old midare on a 2 min cd. It was a terrible exchange. midare got nerfed for this.

I think paladin's magic phase has to go. It adds no depth to the job anyways. DRG's jumps have no depth too, they're literally just a bunch of oGCDs. Masterful Blitz? More like depthless bloat, am I right?

Yes, one button that is only used on two abilities and provides no flexibility adds no depth.

[Deo14]

Yes, one button that is only used on two abilities and provides no flexibility adds no depth.

Just as Celesti already pointed out (and other few hundreds people in the past year in SAM threads), they removed Kaiten and didn't alter Kenki generation. Kenki that would go to Kaiten just goes to Shinten. Instead of making sure you have 20 Kenki ready and don't overcap it, now you just need to make sure you don't overcap it. This is definition of removing depth and nuances. Combination of these small nuances create healthy and gradual skill curve.

I'm proud that you barely ever run out of Kenki for Kaiten, but keep in mind there are Ice mages, free-style SAMs, TBN-less DRKs, freecure fishers, NIN's which drifts the CDs so hard that you can hear eurobeat whenever you come close to them, and more. Simple thing like Kaiten can be difference between bad player and average casual.

Doing X before every Y isn't best design, but keep in mind that this game has 4/19 jobs which have rotation made of 1-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-repeat, we have 2.5 worth of tanks split into 4 tank jobs, we have no real CC and similar effects, and few last DoTs in game are lining up to a chopping block. Ship with good job design has already sailed.

If you want similar examples:
- PLD always uses Goring blade under FoF.
- Requiescat and Faith combo is always used with FoF
- Double down, Sonic Break and Bow Shock is always used under No Mercy
- Ten Chi Jin (ability) has 3 possible combinations, yet you always use the same one

Only difference is that Kaiten was locked behind resource, while these example are locked behind CD (with DD locked behind both CD and resource), but in the end, you can fuck up all of them, which adds small, but not insignificant depth to the jobs.

But don't worry, those 3 pairs of exact same skills, which are just ST/AoE versions of themselves, are definitely good design and not a button bloat.

And most importantly, SE still didn't even respond to quite a hefty amount feedback which they specifically asked for. At this point, I would be happy if they at least said that something other than Shinten spam is coming in 7.0.

[CelestiCer]

...most importantly, SE still didn't even respond to quite a hefty amount feedback which they specifically asked for. At this point, I would be happy if they at least said that something other than Shinten spam is coming in 7.0.

Biggest Redflag for us was Patch 6.1. They asked us for Feedback, which we gave only to be completely ignored. Here "Compilation Thread against Kaiten removal" over 100+ threads / 10+ Feedback Video's and even their own Japanese Megathread lit on fire in a sea of backlash and we got complete radio silence...

Samurai Area of Effect rotation was about Darting in and out of safety aiming Tenka Goken carefully while managing Kenki with Kaiten and Kyuten to maximize the damage output. An ounce of Skill-expression, not a lot? but something.

In came the following changes...

• Hissatsu: Senei - Kenki cost reduced by half
• Hissatsu: Kaiten - removed
• Tenka Goken - Cone shape turned into Circle
• Keashi Goken - Cone shape turned into Circle

Turning our AoE rotation into effortless bland Circle spamming managing nothing... equally as thoughtless as spamming Shinten in our Single Target rotation of which no one ever brings up that Shinten spamming gives Samurai more depth then Kaiten because it's " moronic ". The " It's a button you press every-time " flawed argument? is overused and debunked, because you press every button every time and I can apply this logic to any button and suggest to remove any button at that point.

We're all for replacing x with something better... but accepting something to be taken/ removed with the empty promise of something better? proves to result into disappointment after disappointment with a lot of job changes... as they removed Kaiten? and replaced it with " Absolutely Nothing ".

[AsiTsurugi]

valid points

I appreciate people like you and Celesti still finding a way to not just call the "people" you respond to several deserved... shall we say "adjectives" with every sentence and giving proper rebuttals instead, which these "people" seem too incapable to comprehend. I blame whoever/whatever raised and educated them, assuming they had any of those.

[CelestiCer]

Can we not take away cool attacks? I like namikiri.

So... you never actually played sam lol.

Don't worry, this somehow is considered better Gameplay



Look at that juicy " Shinten-Spamming " gameplay... Not to mention " Hissatsu: Kyuten ", its so much more thoughtful , so much depth so much woah. Way more meaningful choices to make, yay... (obviously) In no way shape or form did this water down the gameplay.