All the Final Fantasy references, but there's no soul

[hunkygladiator]

These references are obviously here to bait FF fans' nostalgia. And they are cool concepts that can be easily reused.

But where's the soul?

We have the Four Fiends, we went to the Moon. We have all the references to Troia, to the Lunar Whale, to Golbez.

But FF4 is a story about redemption. It's about Cecil's transformation and penance for his war crimes. And it's not just redemption for Cecil, but for Golbez and Kain too, and we see how different people approach the issue of forgiveness and redemption. And on the note of forgiveness, we see the futility of vengeance as displayed by Tellah.

Where is any of that in the story for the Four Fiends?

And what about FF8? In many ways it's about Squall slowly opening up throughout the game and "time kompression". But lol, there's barely any of that in the Eden storyline and the only theme that is at all present is on time with the Relativity casts in E12S. And I guess Eden and Gaia becoming BFFs from day one. But there's like nothing in the story that explains why she has those powers at all.

About the closest we get to the "soul" of the original game is in FF12 because of the huge amount of content dedicated to Ivalician lore in FF14. But if you paid attention to the themes of FF12, it's one of loyalty, nationalism and empire. It problematizes not just the Archadian Empire but also Bhujerba and Rabanastre, and calls into question the imagined communities that nations really are. There's none of that in the Ivalician raid of course. Bozja might have come close but it was cut short and the connections are superficial - a lot of Ivalician-style storywriting of introducing lots of political trivia to flesh out a world, but... that's about it.

Probably the only reference that is actually fleshed out is FF12's Venat, but the rationales and outcomes are so different between the two games I'm not sure if it's really even a reference in anything but name.

As for references to FF1-3, this is one area where FF14 improved upon, but that's only because FF1-3 are basically non-stories in the first place.

And there are also many more references like Neo Exdeath and Kefka with absolutely no context.

I hope in the future that when FF14 makes references to other FF's, they try to actually deliver a story that captures the spirit of the previous games.

[TaleraRistain]

Do we just want them to copypasta stories we've already experienced or show honor to them but tell a different story? I'd rather have the latter.

[hunkygladiator]

Do we just want them to copypasta stories we've already experienced or show honor to them but tell a different story? I'd rather have the latter.

What different story. You're telling me that the story of the Four Fiends has as much depth and nuance as FF4. Lmao. It's literally more filler than FF1.

[Jeeqbit]

Regardless, they see this game as a Final Fantasy themepark. Everyone has played different Final Fantasy games and therefore everyone's definition of Final Fantasy is very different, so in order to make it familiar to everyone they bring in constant concepts and references from all of the FF games.

[UkcsAlias]

Do we just want them to copypasta stories we've already experienced or show honor to them but tell a different story?

Its not always about copy pasting stories. Its about preserving a character in presentation. Anima, THE strongest Aeon next to sin in ffx's story (magus sisters are NOT part of that), was disgustingly placed at the end of a dungeon. Making all his strength appear as if its nothing. Its a character deserving to be a trial.

And that is an important part of fan service. As that way a character is reminded the way they remember it. Even if story wise its completely diffirent (and maybe like yojimbo anima also has a chance for a real opportunity to be a trial, but story wise it feels like they made that near impossible).

I dont care if a character gets changed, as long as the character keeps its personality and relative strength towards its original story.

The magus sisters on that were a bit more difficult as the individual fights matter (and on that, putting them in a single dungeon was on that not a realy bad choise), but again, it does not show their strength, and therefor feels like a waste.

You can make an enemy in a story a friend of you, but even then, that character needs to show its quirks of evilness it had. Even if its just in the relentless way of taking care of other enemies. Its those details that define the character. A diffirent personality means that such character could have been replaced by anything random. Its the known personality behind such character that allows further speculations etc to happen. And this is an important part of story telling, keeping the player active into thinking about all possibilities, and imagining how such character would react to it. That is an artform on its own, and EW failed a lot at this.

[Jojoya]

They aren't there to bait franchise fans. They're there because franchise fans like them. It's not limited to Final Fantasy. I've seen it happen in other franchise games (granted those normally share a universe where this one supposedly doesn't).

Personally I'd be happier without the references. There's a lack of originality in using the same names over and the fans get mad when they feel their favorite characters didn't get adequate story. It makes it harder to enjoy what otherwise is a good story because I end up surrounded by people going "this is wrong, it the other game XXX was this way".

[Hurlstone]

The way FFXIV uses past iterations is… interesting. Its much less takeing and adapting the emotional beats of said stories, and more borrowing their aesthetics. In that regard I agree they run the risk of being souless and are more set dressing. Thats not to say its a bad thing though per-say, for example I still love the Edan raid and its themes even if its not what FF8 was about. Taking these familiar looks is not a sin in itself, it can just runs the risk of making said content feel less like original content and more plain fan services.

With FF4, the forgiveness and redemption arc is not here at all… but then I do not really expect it to be, given how there is no substitute for Cecil in the game. They have just taken the Four Fiends and Golbez. I have to say I have enjoy the Void arc and thinks it fits well enough with what they have taken from the game. You could play and understand said arc without having played FF4, and I especially adore the side quest which give us actually well-written background for the Fiends. More so then I remember the base game getting, but it has been many a year since I last played. As for Golbez himself, I am waiting until 6.4 MSQ until I make any judgements there.

Honestly I am more off the opinion that when adapting material like this, its best to do something new with the idea rather then just copy/paste them over, and given the choice I would rather content original to FFXIV then adoptions, but nostalgia can be a powerful drug.

[AwesomeJr44]

Anima, THE strongest Aeon next to sin in ffx's story (magus sisters are NOT part of that), was disgustingly placed at the end of a dungeon.

This honestly was frustrating. At that point why even use Anima if you're just gonna make her a dungeon boss? If making Anima a trial wasn't possible with the way the story was supposed to play out, then just save Anima for when she can be a trial. The most annoying part about this isn't just that Anima wasn't implemented well, it's that there probably won't ever be a proper Anima trial now.

Do we just want them to copypasta stories we've already experienced or show honor to them but tell a different story? I'd rather have the latter.

Big same.

[DixieBellOCE]

These references are obviously here to bait FF fans' nostalgia. And they are cool concepts that can be easily reused.

But where's the soul?

We have the Four Fiends, we went to the Moon. We have all the references to Troia, to the Lunar Whale, to Golbez.

But FF4 is a story about redemption. It's about Cecil's transformation and penance for his war crimes. And it's not just redemption for Cecil, but for Golbez and Kain too, and we see how different people approach the issue of forgiveness and redemption. And on the note of forgiveness, we see the futility of vengeance as displayed by Tellah.

Where is any of that in the story for the Four Fiends?

And what about FF8? In many ways it's about Squall slowly opening up throughout the game and "time kompression". But lol, there's barely any of that in the Eden storyline and the only theme that is at all present is on time with the Relativity casts in E12S. And I guess Eden and Gaia becoming BFFs from day one. But there's like nothing in the story that explains why she has those powers at all.

About the closest we get to the "soul" of the original game is in FF12 because of the huge amount of content dedicated to Ivalician lore in FF14. But if you paid attention to the themes of FF12, it's one of loyalty, nationalism and empire. It problematizes not just the Archadian Empire but also Bhujerba and Rabanastre, and calls into question the imagined communities that nations really are. There's none of that in the Ivalician raid of course. Bozja might have come close but it was cut short and the connections are superficial - a lot of Ivalician-style storywriting of introducing lots of political trivia to flesh out a world, but... that's about it.

Probably the only reference that is actually fleshed out is FF12's Venat, but the rationales and outcomes are so different between the two games I'm not sure if it's really even a reference in anything but name.

As for references to FF1-3, this is one area where FF14 improved upon, but that's only because FF1-3 are basically non-stories in the first place.

And there are also many more references like Neo Exdeath and Kefka with absolutely no context.

I hope in the future that when FF14 makes references to other FF's, they try to actually deliver a story that captures the spirit of the previous games.

Because the content is designed around being able to pick it up and play it as its own story without knowing the references.

People that never played FF8 most likely dont get the Eden references, but can enjoy the entire raid storyline because it was stand-alone.

[hynaku]

FFXIV has no soul it can't even compare to the older Final Fantasy games stories. They were way better written and more fun to play.