Adapting healers in other games into FFXIV for fun: Taion/Tactician

[ty_taurus]

I wanted to have a little fun and get away from the constant, more serious discussions, so I came up with an idea of designing light concepts of how healers in other games could be adapted to FFXIV and what they would look like. This is just a fun way to let out some creative juice and perhaps inspire some ideas for others. I'll give some details, but I won't be going too deep into the nitty gritty.

For this first attempt, I'll be adapting the character Taion from Xenoblade Chronicles 3 into a healer referred to as the "Tactician", or TAC. This is Taion's first class, but I'll also be taking inspiration from his Interlink form even though it's not directly tied to the Tactician class itself. This is not meant to be a full kit, just transforming the abilities available to Taion into something that works within FFXIV, as well as creating a gauge for this job.

The Tactician uses Mondo as a weapon, a form of paper birds created and controlled by a device affixed to Taion's arm. In battle, these Mondo will circle around the player and play a role in the animations of your abilities.



EDIT: I spent a little more time cleaning up, filling gaps, and better organizing this concept to be a more completed healer. I changed a few small things, and I made the full breakdown of everything significantly more presentable. Take a look here to see all of the details. I'll also include a light summary of the concept below:

Gauges
Tactician has two gauges, the Interlink Gauge and the Talent Gauge. Both are inspired by elements of XC3's gameplay. In short, most of your normal spells will generate Interlink to a maximum of 10. Interlink can be spent on actions affiliated with Taion's Interlink Form, giving you damage as well as healing resources that are able to coexist. Interlink is generated faster than it can be spent on DPS resources, so excess exists for healing and MP management. Spending Interlink then increases the Talent Gauge which is used for your biggest attack, Eightfold Divide, which runs on a cooldown. Excess Talent can also be spent on chip healing to keep the party thriving.

Gameplay
Overall, this job has less actions than all other jobs in FFXIV, but there's more flexibility within those actions. Your standard heals, for example, are quite usable and can be relied on in challenging battles in contrast to spells like your Cure/Benefic/Physick/Dosis and other largely avoided tools. You have a very small, RDM like 1-2 combo with an optional alternative to your second hit that mitigates at a high MP cost. Several of your other tools are cooldown based and will have you breaking away from that 1-2 combo regularly per 20 second, 30 second, 40 second, and 60 second intervals.

As usual, this is an on-paper concept only. Without having a prototyping build, it's difficult to balance values like potencies, MP costs, and cooldowns, but values are easy to adjust whereas the interactions between your tools are what's more important to focus on.

With these adjustments, are there any elements that stand out to you that you think are worth discussing?

[Osmond]

Perhaps in FF17 or the next FF MMO……….if the company survives I mean. They have no backup game/s to funnel money to keep the company afloat. Their gacha games are on the decline. NFTs are doomed to fail. They have no western company to blame if they lose profit.

[Renathras]

Honestly, I know you like them a lot, Ty, but almost none of the Xenoblade Chronacles 3 classes would make good MMO classes. They'd work well for a MOBA, but not an MMO in the normal sense. Some of them (but not all of them) might work for an actual ARPG, but no matter how many ARPG elements FFXIV takes on, it can never be one because of the netcode backend it has with the various delays and server tick weirdness.

It also still irks me to this day that Taion uses that Mondo bird shield in all these cutscenes, BUT YOU DON'T GET THAT AS AN ABILITY at any point. An Adlo or Divine Benison would have been a fantastic ability for him to have, and they clearly used that as the idea in all those cutscenes, yet never give it to you, the player. That annoyed the absolute heck outta me.

[ty_taurus]

Honestly, I know you like them a lot, Ty, but almost none of the Xenoblade Chronacles 3 classes would make good MMO classes. They'd work well for a MOBA, but not an MMO in the normal sense. Some of them (but not all of them) might work for an actual ARPG, but no matter how many ARPG elements FFXIV takes on, it can never be one because of the netcode backend it has with the various delays and server tick weirdness.

It also still irks me to this day that Taion uses that Mondo bird shield in all these cutscenes, BUT YOU DON'T GET THAT AS AN ABILITY at any point. An Adlo or Divine Benison would have been a fantastic ability for him to have, and they clearly used that as the idea in all those cutscenes, yet never give it to you, the player. That annoyed the absolute heck outta me.

you couldn’t adapt anything 1:1 from one game to another unless those games are of the same genre, naturally. But you can certainly take something and reimagine it within a different game. Just look at how many different genres of games 2B has appeared in. She’s not playable in XVI of course, but 2B is from an ARPG, and has made appearances in fighting games, turn based RPGs and… whatever genre Lord of Vermillion is (the actual LoV, not our minion version in XIV).

Any of the classes could be reimagined into XIV if they wanted to collab with Xenoblade and add new classes (not that that would happen, but it’s entirely possible to do). That said, this was just something to do for fun. The way it’s outlined here, with more polish, can work within XIV’s balance. It follows the general rules of XIV job design, but it’s just missing a few core essentials, like a raise or single target heals. Also some of my potencies are very wonky, but any class design likely starts with wild potencies before being prototyped.

And yes, while I like the evasion buffs since it complimented Mio’s Zephyr class, the fact that they didn’t give Tactician an Armor Veil buff using the animation he uses more than he uses his healing abilities in cutscenes is a crime. I think perhaps he did have that in a former iteration, but they changed directions at some point. If we wanted to make this into an actual healer and flesh it out completely, Tactician should definitely have at least a pair of OGCD barriers.

[Icecylee]

Honestly, I know you like them a lot, Ty, but almost none of the Xenoblade Chronacles 3 classes would make good MMO classes.

This is very, very funny to me because Xenoblade has always felt like a "what if MMOs were single player games" series to me. (XB1 often felt like playing FF14 cia 1.2x, especially) Like, XB3's kits in particular you'd probably wanna expand out a bit, but at it's core it's still very much built like an MMO...?

[ForsakenRoe]

Ironically the original MOBA was created by converting MMO/RTS characters to a different genre. I don't see why you 'cant' do it, outside of a lack of design inspiration or source material.

Example, I like TWEWY. I could very likely turn the concept of the pins and their interactions between each other into an MMO class, given some time. Blizz recently did it (twice) with the two new specs (potentially with a third if rumors are to be believed) based off of just 'there are 5 kinds of dragons, and they use different kinds of magic'.

Hell, SE themselves do it. WHM, BLM, RDM, SAM, AST, etc were not originally a 'MMO class' they were in singleplayer RPGs. AST in particular is an entire class who's previous showing was one NPC using the LB3, and now we've got cards, Macrocosmos, Horoscope, Star, etc.

[ty_taurus]

Hell, SE themselves do it. WHM, BLM, RDM, SAM, AST, etc were not originally a 'MMO class' they were in singleplayer RPGs. AST in particular is an entire class who's previous showing was one NPC using the LB3, and now we've got cards, Macrocosmos, Horoscope, Star, etc.

RDM specifically is what makes BLU so confusing to me. It was said in the past that they couldn't make BLU a regular job.

"With Blue Mage, for example, we run in to the issue where learning monster actions is the main pillar of the job, but we can potentially see a huge disparity in power between Blue Mages depending on the blue magic they have learned—even if their job level is the same. In other words, too large of a disparity in the number of blue magic abilities learned would create issues if Blue Mages were able to queue normally for duties."

RDM was frequently discussed as not being viable in XIV prior to Stormblood because how on earth could you have a DPS caster that also has a full library of healing spells and feel like it wasn't too powerful that it would invalidate healers or so weak that it wasn't worth taking? They reimagined what it meant to be a RDM within the rules and structure of FFXIV, and it worked beautifully. Moreover, if BLU's identity can only be justified through a limited job, then where is this same passion for upholding the core identity of a job when it comes to BRD? FFXIV's BRD may be the single-most opposite interpretation of a Bard to the Bard of past final fantasy titles than any other interpretation of a Bard in RPG gaming. How come no one was willing to die on that hill?

[Semirhage]

See, I've always been in the camp that's okay with BLU, likely because I have no investment in maining it in current expansion content. It's a product of the FF mainline games I've played, but I've never categorized BLU as a "core" job. It's always been the weird joke class that has like 30 spells you classify as stupid, useless, or unbelievably niche, plus a solid 4-5 that are either OP as hell or exploitable in a way that makes your BLU the star of doing off-kilter shit like beating endgame bosses at level 1.

While XIV's BLU plays that a little TOO safe for how weird BLU gets in other titles, that's exactly what I see them going for in XIV. I wish they'd take it as an opportunity to go even more off the wall with the abilities since it's not in "relevant" content. I see too much of a monkey's paw in asking for BLU to be made a "real" job. First, I mislike the implication that only current patch, current expansion content is "real"; that way lies reclearing your four raids for the week and logging off like this is WoW. XIV needs no more encouragement in that direction. Second, do we *really* need another job homogenized into a 2 minute rotation? Would it truly give people their jollies to spit BLU fish and cartoon anvils at <current raid tier> for two hours a week and log off again? Yes is not a wrong answer to that question, but it's definitely not mine.

[ty_taurus]

See, I've always been in the camp that's okay with BLU, likely because I have no investment in maining it in current expansion content. It's a product of the FF mainline games I've played, but I've never categorized BLU as a "core" job. It's always been the weird joke class that has like 30 spells you classify as stupid, useless, or unbelievably niche, plus a solid 4-5 that are either OP as hell or exploitable in a way that makes your BLU the star of doing off-kilter shit like beating endgame bosses at level 1.

While XIV's BLU plays that a little TOO safe for how weird BLU gets in other titles, that's exactly what I see them going for in XIV. I wish they'd take it as an opportunity to go even more off the wall with the abilities since it's not in "relevant" content. I see too much of a monkey's paw in asking for BLU to be made a "real" job. First, I mislike the implication that only current patch, current expansion content is "real"; that way lies reclearing your four raids for the week and logging off like this is WoW. XIV needs no more encouragement in that direction. Second, do we *really* need another job homogenized into a 2 minute rotation? Would it truly give people their jollies to spit BLU fish and cartoon anvils at <current raid tier> for two hours a week and log off again? Yes is not a wrong answer to that question, but it's definitely not mine.

The thing about it that I don't like is that you can't actually play as BLU in nearly anything in the game currently. You either complete the one-and-done carnivale, or you attempt the very difficult blue mage log which can only be done in a premade party.

I can't play PVP as BLU. I can't do Eureka or Bozja content as BLU. I can't grind Deep Dungeons as BLU. I can't do any roulettes as BLU. I can't run treasure map dungeons as BLU. I can't collect my weekly alliance raid coins for twines and shines as BLU. There's so little that you can actually do. Now, I don't really care that much myself because BLU is not a job I ever really cared about, but I do feel bad for anyone that really likes BLU and would be willing to one-trick BLU if the game allowed them to. The biggest issue I have is I feel like I have to deal with BLU content which I don't really like because I like to collect Triple Triad cards and 2 required you complete all BLU content to obtain. I would prefer they not do that again so I can ignore BLU come 6.45 but we'll see.

[ForsakenRoe]

While XIV's BLU plays that a little TOO safe for how weird BLU gets in other titles, that's exactly what I see them going for in XIV. I wish they'd take it as an opportunity to go even more off the wall with the abilities since it's not in "relevant" content. I see too much of a monkey's paw in asking for BLU to be made a "real" job. First, I mislike the implication that only current patch, current expansion content is "real"; that way lies reclearing your four raids for the week and logging off like this is WoW. XIV needs no more encouragement in that direction. Second, do we *really* need another job homogenized into a 2 minute rotation? Would it truly give people their jollies to spit BLU fish and cartoon anvils at <current raid tier> for two hours a week and log off again? Yes is not a wrong answer to that question, but it's definitely not mine.

Let me take this point by point (and see if I can use a forum formatting I've yet to try) (edit it didnt work and I cba trying to fix it):

1: The idea that 'what if someone doesn't have the right spells' immediately falls apart when you consider that people go into content as not-job when they're of the level to get their job upgrade

2: The current patch is 'real' because that's the way the playerbase has decided the game works. Look how many people go into, say, P4S now that P8S is the 'current raid'. It's some, yes, but a tiny fraction compared to 8. Furthermore, as Ty pointed out, there's a massive amount of non-max level content that BLU is arbitrarily locked out of as it stands. Just opening up Eureka for them would give a massive wealth of content, where they could learn so many skills all at once, helping to solve issue 1.

3: There's actually a lot of stuff you can do in WOW, and like here a lot is optional (thank god we don't have AP grind this time). I could go yell YES CHEF at the Tuskaar Soup Cooking event for rep, but I don't because I just don't feel like doing the grind. Besides, many people already ARE at the point of 'reclear raids, log off for the week' and that's apparently completely fine by SE's standards because it's still the same sub money coming in.

4: BLU pretty much already is a '2min rotation' class, with a 1min miniburst. Even in it's limited state it conforms to the meta, looking at the kit I have active atm, the only things that don't are Glass Dance and Triple Trident. But Phantom Flurry, Nightbloom/Both Ends, J-Kick/Quasar, Supranakra, Titan/Ramuh, Peculiar Light, Offguard, Matra Magic are all 1/2min CDs, and Garuda/Ifrit and Rose of Destruction are 30s so they line up too

Last point gets to be special outside of the list, it depends on how they were to implement it. Way I'd do it is to have 'unlimited BLU' be the synced, and ironically actually 'limited' version, where every spell is essentially categorized based on it's effect, and function as 'skill glamours'. eg all the cones are collectable reskins of the basic 'cone skill' you'd get from the questline (or levelling), which solves both the 'what if they dont have the right skills' issue, and keeps the only identity BLU's ever truly had, that of 'you learn enemy skills'. 'Limited BLU' would remain, also ironically, as the Unsync (and Carnivale) version, where it's limits are actually removed. This mode would add additional effects to each skill, based on it's original form we have now, such as LVL Death also applying instantkill or Petrify turning things to stone.

Additionally, I'd make it so that raidbosses do NOT have any immunities to instantkill. This means that, once an expansion is over and done with and not 'relevant' anymore (since the instakill effect only works while unsync), you can instakill the raidboss with BLU, making it way easier to re-obtain old glamour pieces, even solo, which might help address the issue of 'no space in dresser'. If it's possible to re-obtain that chestpiece from Eden's Verse by doing a process of 'run in, instakill Shiva, repeat up to 8 times' instead of having to rely on PF to know what they're doing, people might be a bit more open to the idea of throwing out some old junk that is in the 'well i probably wont use it but it's a bitch to re-get it' category. And BLU can still be used in 'challenge run, as it was back then, min ilvl no echo' kind of stuff, because the instakill effect is unsync only

It'd also fill a niche that does not yet exist: the 'support heavy, trash personal-dps caster', the DNC of Casters as it were. Or, given what I'd do to Offguard and Peculiar Light, maybe more accurate to call it the NIN of Casters.



Sorry BLU tangent, TLDR SE decided they wanted to do X with a fan favorite class and refuse to budge on it for any reason whatsoever