Because why not: A Moderate Proposal - SCH

**Renathras** · 05-03-2023 07:00 AM

As SCH is presently either the most, or second most (depending on how we're looking at it) [EDIT04AUG23]complex[/EDIT] Healer Job in the game, it remaining as it is wouldn't be too "braindead". But even so, and given how many players have said they'd like Energy Drain decoupled from Aetherflow, Dissipation changed to not remove the Faerie, Faerie Gauge changed to do...something other than just Aetherpact, Physic being useless, Lustrate being somewhat useless, and due to Ruin II being far less useful with a 1.5 sec Broil IV cast time, I propose the following:

.

Replace Ruin II with Miasma. Miasma is an instant cast ability that does an initial point of damage (like Dia) and has a small and shortish duration DoT attached. An expansion would, of course, change numbers, but think something like 200 Potency with a 30 potency DoT that has a 15 second duration (total potency of the DoT would be 5x 30 potency ticks for 150 total + 200 of the base damage = 350 overall) such that it would be a mild DPS gain over Broil IV, but not over Biolysis, and with enough of the damage up front that using it for a movement tool where you have to overwrite the DoT one or two times still produces decent output (spamming it would only do 20 less potency than SCH does with Ruin II now). This would give SCH a second DoT to juggle, making Miasma a consistent part of its rotation ~4x a minute, while also maintaining Ruin II's general use as a movement tool. Ruin II could be repuposed as part of the Broil leveling line for SCH's from level 40-something until they get Broil at 54 as just a flat upgrade to Ruin I, or could simply be entirely removed. The reason I couch this as "replace Ruin II with Miasma" is to stress that it's in the rotation designed as a movement tool/Ruin II replacement, but is a marginal DPS gain if maintained with high uptime. Finally, generates 5 Faerie Gauge per DoT Tick (this will be important later...but the short version is it can be used to generate more Energy Drains for damage or more Aetherpacts for healing if you maintain good uptime.)

Have Physic trait upgrade to Adloquium at level 30, reducing Adlo's MP cost to something slightly more manageable like 700 MP per cast. The average of alternating an Adlo with Physic in cases of Tanks that don't use CDs in Stone Vigil is 1,400 MP, 1,000 from the Adlo and 400 from the Physic, so 700 MP for Adlo would mean chain casting Adlo in that situation results in the same MP consumption rate. Likewise, increase the base potency of the heal to 450 from 300 - making it equal to and thus not a downgrade from Physic. [OPTIONAL: Its cast time would be reduced to 1.5 sec, to match Physic and be a direct upgrade.] The shield can be adjusted to 120% of the heal (540) which would be equal to the current 180% of 300 (also 540) so that the only piece that is changed is the direct heal, and Adlo healing as much as Cure 1, Benefic 1, and Diagnosis is probably not a bridge too far, especially since it will be more MP expensive than any of them and none of them are used anyway since they're so weak.

Lustrate upgrades to Excogitation. Remove the CD from Excogitation. This would allow Lustrate/Excog to be used as an AF dump more readily than now (since no one might need healing at the moment but might after a short time), and removing the CD would allow for that. Excog only does 200 more potency than Lustrate now, so the difference isn't really deserving of a 45 sec CD anyway. While it DOES allow the SCH to autopilot the healing some, that IS SCH's gimmick to begin with (with Eos/Selene and even current Aetherpact), and as it is right now, people try to avoid using Lustrate anyway, so this would be replacing an almost never used button with something more useful that can still do what Lustrate does - Excog's heal will go off immediately if the target is already below 50% health, which is the only time you'd really be planning to use Lustrate on them anyway.

Dissipation no longer dismisses your Faerie on use. That's it. That's the change. We could ALSO make it increase the healing of all healing actions, not just spells, but just this change would more or less "fix" the ability. Note that this was commonly requested in the Survey.

Change Aetherpact to a direct spot heal on the target instead of a channel. This prevents it from interfering with other Faerie abilities and encourages using it as a spot healing tool. 300 potency with a 3 sec CD just like now would mean that it applies no faster/slower, you just have to actually engage with it a bit more. But given the benefits of not having it conflict so harshly with other Faerie actions, this should be a net positive for everyone. This may necessitate an increase in the Faerie Gauge cost for it, but that's still better than the current situation. Note this version of Aetherpact can now be used under Seraph if you like, though as a slight potency loss considering Seraph's shields. Also note the following change.

Energy Drain decoupled from Aetherflow. Instead, it costs some amount of Faerie Gauge, say 20 or 30 units? Right now, one of the recurring complaints about SCH is the Faerie Gauge is useless for anything other than Aetherpact, and that people often don't even use Aetherpact anyway, but conversely, that they WANT to use Excogitation and Sacred Soil, two great abilities that are enjoyable to players to use, but feel hamstrung by the DPS loss of not getting Energy Drain. CONVERSELY, some people say having to sacrifice some healing for some damage is a trade-off that they LIKE. So given all of that: Making ED use Faerie Gauge instead seems a tidy solution. Don't be too quick to knock it. Under these changes, Aetherpact is now a pocket mini-Lustrate (half the Potency of current Lustrate) spot healing tool, making this trade-off somewhat meaningful, while not as punitive as it is right now - if ED was competing with only Lustrate and not Soil, Indom, and Excog, its reliance on AF would be far less obnoxious to people. This still allows for meaningful decisions between some healing and damage, while also freeing up Aetherflow stacks for the more interesting healing abilities, and remember, Excogitation now exists as an AF dump, so you won't be stuck capped on AF and needing to refresh it anymore, especially if you're using 1-2 Soils per minute now anyway. Finally, with the Miasma ticks generating 5 Faerie Gauge, it means keeping good Miasma uptime will give you ~100 Gauge per minute in addition to the 30 from AF spenders, meaning you can potentially get in a lot more Energy Drains and you're rewarded by proper Miasma use with more ED to weave into your DPS rotation.

Whispering Dawn upgrades into Fey Blessing. All this does is just add the 350 potency heal on the front of its HoT. As both are 60 sec CDs at the moment, this might be the more logical choice. It will now do a 350 potency AOE cure and apply the 80 potency HoT. While SLIGHTLY less flexible than being able to space them out, and at the slight risk of making it more like Physic II, Celestial Opposition, Aspected Helios/Medica 2, makes Blessing's smallish heal more capable of dealing with things and makes it a more interesting spell than just "does some AOE healing on a 1 min CD". ALTERNATIVELY:

Combine Fey Illumination and Fey Blessing. At level 76, Fey Illumination upgrates to have Fey Blessing's small AOE heal. That's it. In a game where Physis and Collective Unconscious can exist, a 2 min CD that increases healing magic (not action) Potency by 10%, reduces magic damage taken by 5%, and offers a token 350 (PET) Potency heal (~300 normal Potency) isn't very overpowered. This is probably the less logical of the two, but either option is good with me.

...consequently, Fey Blessing will be useable under Seraph (considering it's not now for...who can even guess why? Probably a relic of it costing Faerie Gauge that didn't go away with its removal...)

Finally: Casting Broil IV on a target with DoTs will spread those DoTs to nearby enemies within 5y. Why? (A) This gives you a tool to spread your two DoTs to multiple enemies, (B) this gives you a reason to mix up your AOE rotation a bit more from just Art of War spam, making Broil IV an integral part of the AOE rotation. The ideal multi-target rotation will now be Biolysis, Miasma, Broil IV, Art until DoTs fall off, repeat, liberally sprinking in Energy Drains, which recall are now ALSO generated by Miasma ticks. And spreading Miasma this way should generate A LOT of Miasma ticks! It's a Thundercloud-ish proc without the proc, essentially. Why this instead of Bane? Because doing it this way (1) doesn't add additional button bloat, (2) is still a resource trade-off since you're foregoing an Art of War to do it, (3) still gives you additional buttons outside of Art of War spam to engage with in AOE. It's arguably slightly less good in a 2 target boss type situation, but it's still something more interesting than what it is right now, which should at least be considered a step in the right direction.

.

Summary:

Ruin II replaced with Miasma: Instant cast, 400 MP cost, GCD that deals 200 Potency on initial hit (down 20 from current Ruin II), but has a 30 potency DoT for 15 seconds (5 ticks for 150 more, a total of 350 Potency or 55 gain over Broil IV), generates 5 Faerie Gauge per tick (for use on Aetherflow mini-Lustrates or Energy Drains). Useful as a movement tool for a relatively low DPS loss, useful as an upkeep DoT for a marginal gain over Broil IV spam, ideal 4x per min refresh.

Physic upgrades to Adlo: New Adlo has 450 Potency of healing, 120% shield (same 540 size as today), 700 MP cost (same cost as alternating Adlo/Physic casts today) [OPTIONAL: Reduce cast time to 1.5 sec to match Physic.]

Lustrate upgrades into Excogitation, Excogitation CD removed: Excog is now an AF dump and general use spot healing tool, in addition to its delayed use tool, opening it up for a lot of uses.

Dissipation: No longer dismisses Eos/Selene. That's it, and is the most fantastic change in the history of changes.

Aetherpact: Now a mini-Lustrate single target direct heal. Shares Faerie Gauge with Energy Drain, allowing a trade-off between damage and healing, and doesn't lock your Faerie out of other uses. Useable under Seraph now.

Energy Drain decoupled from Aetehrflow: Now costs Faerie Gauge, having a trade-off with the mini-Lustrate Aetherpact instead of locking players out of Soil, Excog, and Indom. More uses with good Miasma uptime, especially in AOE situations.

Whispering Dawn upgrades to Fey Blessing: All this does is add Blessing's AOE heal onto the front of Whispering Dawn's HoT. Simple change. Fey Blessing is now usable under Seraph as well in this new form. (OR combine Illumination with Blessing, but I think Whispering/Blessing is better...)

Broil IV now spreads DoTs from its target to enemy targets within 5y, giving SCH some cleave potential as well as making the AOE rotation even less Art-centric.

.

By combining Physic/Adlo, Lustrate/Excog, and Whispering Dawn/Fey Blessing, it frees up a total of 3 Hotbar slots (not a ton, but it's something to fight the scourge of button bloat), it also makes the DPS rotation in both single target and AOE FAR more active than it is today, since you'll be generating a lot more Energy Drains (especially with good Miasma use), actually using Miasma (where Ruin II is often unused), and even mix up the AOE rotation by adding in Biolysis, Miasma, and Broil IV before returning you to your regularly scheduled Art of War spam. Energy Drain becomes a pseudo Thundercloud-ish proc (generated faster by DoT uptime on Miasma) that still trades off with healing (Aetherpact) while not cutting players off from Soil/Excog/Indom. Aetherpact becomes more generally useful. Faerie Gauge becomes a thing you won't just sit on 100 of all the time. And Excogitation becomes a useful AF dump in addition to its general use as a strong spot heal option.

The changes don't significantly change much, and add no new buttons/abilities (other than converting Ruin II into Miasma), but leave SCH with the same general playstyle it has now, but with small additions to make some of its abilities slightly more usable (mainly Aetherpact and Lustrate/Excogitation, Soil and Indom by not having to compete with ED, Adlo to an extent), give a slightly higher skill ceiling (good Miasma uptime might actually lead to a somewhat significant DPS increase if it's kept up all the time and the Faerie Gauge funneled into Energy Drains, but in a general sense, Energy Drain isn't a HUGE damage gain, and Miasma not a HUGE damage gain over Broil, so this doesn't highly gimp players not optimizing those tools while still allowing those that do some room for skill expression), a more engaging single target rotation, a MUCH more engaging AOE rotation, and consolidates some abilities to tamp down on button bloat.

.

Those are the changes. I know everyone will hate them...though perhaps not. You guys do surprise me from time to time, and this is more complex than most of my proposals.

And, it should be noted that out of the Survey responses, SCH was (among the Healer Jobs) the second highest rated, in a statistical tie with SGE, meaning relatively speaking, people don't hate it and it's a good base to build from.

**AmiableApkallu** · 05-03-2023 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by Renathras

But even so, and given how many players have said they'd like Energy Drain decoupled from Aetherflow, Dissipation changed to not remove the Faerie, Faerie Gauge changed to do...something other than just Aetherpact, Physic being useless, Lustrate being somewhat useless, and due to Ruin II being far less useful with a 1.5 sec Broil IV cast time...

(emphasis mine)

I'm curious: What do you personally think about SCH needs improving? Which of these issues do you personally contend with?

**Renathras** · 05-03-2023 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

(emphasis mine)

I'm curious: What do you personally think about SCH needs improving? Which of these issues do you personally contend with?

Why do you ask? Serious question, because a lot of people like to figure out what my positions are so they can attack them, not in some spirit of goodwill and understanding.

.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt:

Dissipation has been a mess since it was first implemented (the original version, you had to manually resummon your Faerie after it). The very idea contradicts the Job lore and fantasy of having a Faerie partner you work with, and there's really no reason for having her dismissed, considering how people often point out you're not losing out on THAT much healing with her gone, which is a double edged sword meaning "Then why have her go away at all?" I don't like it thematically nor do I like it mechanically. It has ANTI-synergy with around 1/3rd of the kit and just feels bad to use in every way, especially since it's largely a glorified "get in 3 more Energy Drains" button these days for MOST content.

Energy Drain is a similar ability. When it was removed in ShB, I was happy, when it got readded, less so. That modern SCH optimization is built around it is highly grating, as the things it is competing with - Soil in particular, but also Excog, and to a lesser extent Indom (less so since that one I don't care about like I do Soil; Sacred Soil was the reason I leveled SCH in ARR in the first place because I love the idea of generating a protective/save-ish area for my friends and allies to protect them) - are things I'd MUCH rather use than Energy Drain, but doing them MEANS playing suboptimally, no matter how good they are or how useful they could be in the situation.

Conversely, Faerie Gauge has been garbage since it was added. Aetherpact isn't that powerful, and has antisynergy with Seraph, Dissipation, and all your Faerie abilities. In SB, at least you had an "AOE gauge spender" with Fey Blessing, but it had a CD. Instead of removing the CD, they removed the Gauge cost, making Faerie Gauge "the Aetherpact Gauge", and as noted, Aetherpact is already an obnoxious ability. Tying Energy Drain to this gauge and reworking Aetherpact into a form that actually IS a bit more useful means that ED can have that trade-off with healing in a realistic sense, but not locking people out of cool healing effects they want to use like Sacred Soil. ("people" here is not just me, but INCLUDES me, if you want to be snippy on that point.) Moreover, tying it to other parts of the kit besides just Aetherflow spenders gives the whole kit a bit more interactivity and rewards good Miasma use. Not something I care terribly for, but I'm not opposed to it and I know people here like that kind of thing. And for the people who prefer healing to DPSing, Miasma uptime gives them access to additional healing power, though it's a small enough heal that this isn't a big loss if they're letting Miasma fall off and foregoing some of those Aetherpacts. It's an elegant solution for a more civilized age.

SCH also has the second-worst Glarespam after AST (ironically, WHM doesn't have this problem nearly as bad). Ruin 2 is less useful since Broil 4 has a 1.5 sec cast, so giving it a secondary use that also helps the people that want "more DoTs" seems a nice compromise, and WHM already has something SORT of like this with Dia, though this is actually making that an intended use of the ability rather than a last resort movement tool like it is with WHM, giving SCH two niches. I've always liked SCH having Ruin 2 for movement, and this as an evolution to improve on that I think has merit.

I think Fey Blessing doesn't have a use on its own, so folding it into something both reduces button bloat AND gives it a more effective and proper use.

I feel like Lustrate is lacking and Excog having a CD is stupid, so this fixes that, too.

I think Physic is lacking and Adlo is a bit unwieldy, so this fixes that, too.

And I think Art of War spam in AOE is boring, and this fixes that, too.

.

The largest issues I think SCH needs improving are Energy Drain using Aetherflow, Dissipation having anti-synergy with the kit and dismissing Eos/Selene, Aetherpact having anti-synergy with Dissipation and Seraph, Faerie Gauge being borderline pointless, Art of War spam being boring, and SCH having too much button bloat.

This tackles ALL of those problems at once, and generates something that would be simultaneously more intuitive to pick up and play AND have a higher skill ceiling than current SCH.

.

SO, now that you know what _I_ personally think: What do you think of the proposal?

**Renathras** · 05-03-2023 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Anyway, for the SCH suggestion, it ultimately doesn't address the main issue of Broil spam. You will still spam Broil constantly, and that's what many want to see change. That said, there are fine QoL ideas here, like I also think Whispering Dawn should just upgrade into Fey Blessing. I'd like to see the faeries offer different values once more--simple things like more burst healing from Eos and mitigation from Selene, but Fey Blessing feels repetitive currently, and there are also more areas that you could consolidate. The Miasma concept isn't where I'd go, but isn't a bad idea either. There is the small issue Sebazy brought up previously about buff/debuff limits and having multiple DoTs likely isn't something we'll be seeing more of in the future to combat that issue. This is why the scholar discussion that I had in the past about my own ideas toyed with the idea that different attack spells would apply stacks of a single debuff that you could then detonate for one large DoT. But at the end of the day, a change like that could be nice, but not really something that fixes the biggest problem. Like a fresh coat of paint on the fixer-upper that still needs reflooring.

It directly addresses Broil spam - you're going to be casting several LESS Broils in a given time frame due to Miasma 2, on par with pre-ShB SCH. So if you liked pre-ShB SCH (that is, SB SCH), this should be similar.

I appreciate you like some of the changes. Considering most proposals for SCH are "more DoTs", it seems weird to oppose it now. There's not really a way to have it a different way other than something like Wildfire (which isn't a DoT) or having a stacking DoT (but then you'd just cast Biolysis 3x then refresh before it falls off).

These are pretty significant changes all around to call it "just a fresh coat of paint"...as I said in summary, they address the anti-synergies the Job has, they give you a higher skill ceiling, more to keep up with, but not TERRIBLY more, rewards for keeping up with it, and makes both the single target and AOE rotations more varied than they are now, arguably "fixing" them.

I mean, look at SCH combat in SB - just the attacking actions - and compare them to this. I'll do it in a bit when I get back from town, but I don't think it'll be AS different than you might think.

**Osmond** · 05-03-2023 09:09 AM

Hmmmm.......

They could give it a ruin 2 upgrade to Miasma, but I don't see them call it that since they are straying off from that name. No idea what to call it, it'll give it a cool looking animation....probably a sight potency increase. Not going to be Toxicon in terms of potency and AoE fall off. It'll stick to single target.

Not going to see them touching Physick anytime soon....not important tool to mess with. Adlo......untouched other than cure potency adjustment.

Lustrate isn't going to be touched nor Excog. Both of those tools are in a good spot. No one is having a issue with them.

They might just remove Energy Drain altogether. It's becoming more useless to have in SCH's toolkit....more like done on purpose, but whatever. Just get rid of it and create a new ability.

Dissipation.......If the fairy going to go poof, just give a AoE mitigation/regen although weak to not make it overpowered like they did with Expedient. Keep the aetherflow stack and healing potency. It just need something since SCH will lack pet healing for 20 secs while SGE can dmg and heal with their 2min ability.

**fulminating** · 05-03-2023 09:17 AM

Energy drain is still the core of scholar’s mp management, inflicting sage’s peculiarities upon scholar doesn’t help there. If there are people who can’t see this, frankly their opinion should be discarded.

**Sebazy** · 05-03-2023 09:23 AM

For the most part the changes seem agreeable, I've got a few niggles with it but I don't think there's anything that couldn't be tweaked out.

The only real oversight I can see is upgrading Lustrate into Excog. That leaves SCH in a bit of a unique position where it doesn't really have a dependable single target instant cast heal with good reach to get someone topped if they still need more HP for an incoming hit but are over 50% so Excog won't fire in time. It's not that uncommon for people to dodge AoE heals in Savage so I could see this being a bit annoying.

Personally I think you should be bolder with Dissipation, make it detonate or even refresh existing shields or something as a burst of healing or damage so that the name still makes sense.

As for Energy Drain, IMO I think the ability is beyond cursed at this point. A measly 100 potency 'nuke' shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as abilities as powerful as Soil and Indom, yet here we are. Aetherflow as a whole is damned if you do and damned if you don't right now because we shouldn't be in a situation where we can recommend shelving our most powerful healing tools for such a trite amount of DPS. But yet remove the spender and what else are you left with in casual content besides wild amounts of overhealing. Honestly, if SE are happy with healing requirements to be as low as they are now, the entire Aetherflow system needs a ground up rethink IMO.

Merging Blessing and Whispering Dawn makes a ton of sense, Blessing in it's current form is pretty worthless if you ask me, but adding it's up front HPS to WD and sidestepping the

Lastly, Broil IV spreading dots? Yeah I can get behind that. Good idea and a nice homage to Bane.

**Renathras** · 05-03-2023 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Osmond

Hmmmm.......

They're also moving away from the Ruin name (for SCH), and Miasma would mean they could have Ruin 2 just be shared with ACN (not in a game backend sense, as SCH's are based on Mind, but in a "conceptual for new player" sense of going from ACN to SCH). In fact, I suspect if they do a major rework of SCH, it will start by making levels 1-30 line up CLOSER to ACN (or splitting them completely, though I dislike that idea FAR more). Giving SCH Outburst and having it become Art of War (which...would be ranged at that point and have an icky cast time... <_<) or making Energy Drain the Aetherflow button and having Fester be what Energy Drain is...but that's a whole other hassle. I don't think they're going to do that (even though making it more intuitive would probably not be BAD for newer players) since they split SCH completely from ACN back when ShB launched/5.0.

At some point they may make the base cures straight upgrades other than for SGE, since it has Eukrasia. Not saying it's a sure thing, but notice how none of the PvP kits on ANY of the Healers have Cure 1/Benefic 1/Physic. If they're relatively MP neutral vs the lower level spells, and have the same cast times (Benefic II already does this), then there's no reason to retain the lower level one in a world of "fighting button bloat".

How would Lustrate being Excog without a CD change how you heal?

They removed ED in ShB, and that IS possible. But my point with this was an olive branch to the people here I'm constantly butting heads with because they want all the Healer Jobs to be DPS Jobs. I'm trying to see if some kind of neutral ground can exist, and I honestly kind of like a lot of these changes.

Just leaving the pet out during Dissipation would effectively fix ALL the problems people have with Dissipation. And it's not like it's a hard thing for them to do mechanically to make it NOT remove the pet and resummon it. It should actually be easier for the game's backend to handle, honestly.

Originally Posted by fulminating

Energy drain is still the core of scholar’s mp management, inflicting sage’s peculiarities upon scholar doesn’t help there. If there are people who can’t see this, frankly their opinion should be discarded.

Wait, it is? I thought they changed that?

Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 100.
Additional Effect: Absorbs a portion of damage dealt as HP
Additional Effect: Increases Faerie Gauge by 10
Aetherflow Gauge Cost: 1

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/scholar/

How is ED related to MP management, as it neither consumes nor generates MP?

I'm also curious how shunting Energy Drain to compete with Aetherpact is "inflicting sage" onto SCH? I don't think any other Job has a spamable oGCD to burn 2-4 times from its gauge 0-100 resource that can ALSO alternatively be used for healing and which they generate by DoT upkeep and primary resource consumption. That would be unique across all Jobs in the game right now, wouldn't it?