Does FFXIV's combat system need an overhaul?

[Avoidy]

I'd be fine with the snapshotting if it were a 100% consistent thing. Someone earlier said it's predictable 95% of the time, and that sounds about right. But that 5% of the time where it's not what the game trains you to think it'll be, can range from mildly annoying to low-key infuriating.

i really really wish we'd get rid of all this shit that just exists to be used off cd but doesn't actually add anything to a job. Like brd has a skill called sidewinder iirc, and you literally just hit it every 60s. It doesn't do anything except exist to get used and it lines up naturally with your burst and that's it. Same with the DoTs now, too. They're just there to be refreshed but they don't feed into your procs like they used to. I think if a job has a mechanic like this that doesn't really feed into its gameplay loop, then those things should be retooled so they do. Honestly I think most of the dps jobs feel alright; i wish they'd fucking do something about the healing in this game though because it's boring as hell and completely irredeemable in its current state imo. a massive chunk of the game's casual content doesn't even require a healer, that's how totally fucked the role is.

[Atelier-Bagur]

I just want them to bring back some core rpg elements into the combat such as meaningful debuffs (that arent just dots), buffs (that arent just moar damage), resistances etc stuff that would easily help design our jobs to be interesting and unique. Also with combat overhaul, comes dungeon/trial/raid overhaul where dungeon instances are a lot bigger and just very slightly more open-ended, with a lot more mobs that you cant wall 2 wall, mobs that drop gil, exp, items and even gear so mob fights can be rewarding somewhat. Also maybe mix up the boss encounter like in WoW where sometimes you have 4 or heck even 5 bosses in a dungeon along with perhaps adding in secret bosses if you do some bit of puzzle solving for unique loot. Basically make dungeons feel like an actual mini-adventure and not just a monotonous treadwheel.

I suppose current trial design is fine.....wait no its not, or at least can we please have trial fights where its not just a big circle or dare I say a square? All these squares shouldnt make a circle.

Raid design overhaul would be just a beefed up version of my want for dungeon design, where its not just a long narrow hallway.

[Renathras]

The jobs need overhauls, not the combat system. If one wants entirely different combat systems, there are MMOs out there who deliver on that. SWtoR or GW2 have a more action focused combat.

My personal opinion is that it is good there is variety in combat systems and not everything has to be made the same just because it would be "modern". People often don't want that, look at OSRS and Retail Runescape or WoW with Classic and Retail. People often prefer simple "old" systems.

Well, I think what I mean is that the current combat system DOES NOT ALLOW Jobs to be too distinct. They pretty much all have to be builder/spender type classes that build resources, try not to overcap them, but conserve/have a high amount when the 2 min burst window comes up and all blow them in that window. Likewise, there can only be so much turreting due to the movement requirements of fights (BLM has so much instant cast tools now it's more mobile than RDM, if you can believe it), and fight damage to the party limits diverse healing styles like a HoT Healer.

The reason there can't be variety in Job design/Job overhauls is because the combat system. If we keep the combat system we have now but overhaul the Jobs, we'll end up with the same Jobs because they are very limited in how they can branch them out while operating under the current system and paradigms.

[RitsukoSonoda]

Does the combat system need an overhaul? Yes

Is it likely to happen in a meaningful way? No

The reason being the overall design direction they decided to take with the game for the purpose of attracting people outside the player bases of MMO's and RPG's is what has caused the combat system to be in the state it's in now.

[Hurlstone]

I can only speak as a casual player who does not do much hardcore endgame. I think given how some people complain about difficulty a rework of combat would be needed to achieve their vision, everything from how jobs work to boss encounters and the whole ‘dance’ mechanic of it all. Personally speak though, I would not want such a drastic overhaul. I like the games style of combat, and how encounters work etc. Would I like to see more diversity in battle tactics and events? Very much yes. More difficult content for solo and group players? You bet. Such things can be added within the current framework however, and I just do not see the need for a major shake up.

[Oizen]

That was part of what I was saying. They can't decide on a DPS check if players are not all approaching the fight in the same way so making them all align makes it easier for them.

I don't get the reason why this game has such a hard on for rigid damage checks, and I'm not saying this as some angry casual that can't meet them.

I'm of the opinion that the game shouldn't even have super rigid DPS checks if they're not going to implement systems to accurately teach people who to push their buttons correctly, and how to gauge their performance.

Seems like they're trying to have their cake and eat it too by having these hardcore raiding features but the rest of the game heavily favors casuals.

[Jeeqbit]

I don't get the reason why this game has such a hard on for rigid damage checks, and I'm not saying this as some angry casual that can't meet them.

Otherwise you could just play a macro every 15 GCDs to do a rotation for you. I've solo'd some of the Shadowbringers normal raids and been there over 20 minutes because of there not being an enrage. I solo'd one from Stormblood as a blue mage and discovered it actually had a 14 minute enrage. Should a boss really just repeat 2 mechanics after the first 10 minutes while you spend a further 20 minutes killing it because nobody can press their buttons well?

I'm of the opinion that the game shouldn't even have super rigid DPS checks if they're not going to implement systems to accurately teach people who to push their buttons correctly, and how to gauge their performance.

Tooltips, job guide, and Stone, Sky, Sea are how they do this and if someone actually uses them, they are enough. For example, I don't go to the balance every time a new expansion releases or every time I play a job with a new rotation. I just read the tooltips and job guide it's pretty obvious from there.

The Balance is useful to learn a tip or too for optimization (for example, delaying or dropping Atonements on paladin), but the core rotations are pretty obvious if you set it up and read it properly as you're doing it.

Seems like they're trying to have their cake and eat it too by having these hardcore raiding features but the rest of the game heavily favors casuals.

They have always designed content for both, with an extreme in every patch, savage every two patches, and various other types of content in between for both sides.

[Oizen]

So in order.

Should a boss really just repeat 2 mechanics after the first 10 minutes while you spend a further 20 minutes killing it because nobody can press their buttons well?

Not that they shouldn't exist, its that they shouldn't be as rigid as they are.
When mechanics get as hard as they do towards the end of a fight, those tend to be a harder check anyway. I'm not against dps checks, but the game sucks at preparing you for them.
The entire Abyssos fiasco should tell us its not something they test that much anymore either.

Tooltips, job guide, and Stone, Sky, Sea.

Lets be real, these are dogshit. I shouldn't need to go into why but fact of the matter is the game's rotations are community made nothing you really learn in game outside of the standard 123.
Stone Sky is Sea is not at all more useful than a striking dummy in your lawn. It doesn't really simulate uptime/downtime, mechanics or anything, its just there so people cant point to it and pretend there's actually a bridge between casual content and higher end content, which there is not.

The Balance is useful to learn a tip or too for optimization, but the core rotations are pretty obvious if you set it up and read it properly as you're doing it.

Well first of "But a Discord channel!" doesn't excuse the game's short comings, and I'd say the game doesn't really teach you optimal ways to play your job. Nowhere in the Tooltip for enshoroud does it say "waste time in this form by using random non-enshroud gcds so you can fit two enshrouds under the extremely strict timing of 2m raid buffs" as a random example.

I'd also say a lot of tool tips are very vague, poorly worded, or littered with so many "Additional Effect" that figuring shit out isn't as easy as you're making it sound. Of course thats where The Balance comes in, but then that's a community thing, not a in game resource. I'm not going to give the game a pass because it has a wikipedia article.

They have always designed content for both

Kind of? They do make high and low end content, but not in a way that's conducive of offering players a road to get into the hardest content on their own.

The biggest difficulty jump in this game is from Normal baseline content to Extreme. There is very, very little content in this game that could arguably even be placed around this level. I think this is why so many people just MSQ tourist this game, because once the game stops holding your hand and dumps you off a cliff, you're left wondering what there is even to do.

The game doesn't teach you anything outside of the core fundamentals of press 123, avoid aoe. Try even slightly harder content and you'll get utterly stomped. Tanks aren't taught to mitigate, DPS aren't taught the intricacies of their combos, Supports are just a mess really. Its a pretty miserable experience if you don't have outside tools to help you

[TaleraRistain]

They need to take a look at the engine and netcode as well. In order to keep the game relevant going forward, they really need to be able to make the fights reactive rather than constantly relying on glorified, pre-planned DDR. Memorization is fine, but it can't the only trick in their proverbial hat.

Doesn't even need to be that fancy, either. Case in point: Larboard and starboard.

[Shougun]

The problem with the 2 min burst is that it is incredibly, exceedingly, inflexible.



One mistake and your timing is ruined. Personally, I think they need to dump job synergy entirely. It makes things too static.

When they were having sneak attack and AST troubles or people were asking for buff classes and they were like .. nah lol, I thought one way to get them partially in vibe without too much issue was having limits on buffs. Like Enfire could grant extra potency up to 500. Debuff on monster that increases incoming damage up to Y.

If for the most part other job's buffs become their own and we leave the shared burst window I think it would be generally even more okay. Ultimately it's very shallow synergy, but for a job that wants that theme it could be there as an opportunity. I think the example I used previously was Hemorrhaging Spine and Melt Flesh for a blood / necro like mage- which caused the target enemy to take additional damage from their actions, as well from flank/rear, and ranged while the latter dealt instant damage and set damage per incoming attack up to a maximum.

Variations established on the variables, like Hemorrhaging Spine could have a 20 second duration and a maximum of 1000 potency. While Melt Flesh would be instant 250 potency, and additional 500 divided across 5 debuffs that each get consumed by an attack with a debuff duration of 7 seconds and resets at each consumption (from anyone, and multifold attacks could trigger the effect faster). But as the player owns the buff the buff is only 'buffed' by that player's stuff- so the Dark Knight or Ninja might kick off the buff faster than normal yet it would ultimately still 'usually' end at the same.