Does FFXIV's combat system need an overhaul?

[Jeeqbit]

The biggest offender - and what makes EW have more of this feeling than any past expansion - seems to be the 2 min meta. What started out as a well-intentioned attempt to make raiding more approachable has clearly backfired. Not only did it not make raiding easier for the less intrepid

I think the 2-minute meta was meant to make raiding harder. SE could not scale DPS checks around aligned buffs because many raiders didn't care about it except statics and even some of those are probably too casual to care unless they are dying to enrage. Now that buff alignment is guaranteed in the class design, they can design the DPS checks around them and make the checks harder to meet even for the harder core raiders. As you explained, it seems to have succeeded in making it harder as well, considering even hardcore raiders were having trouble with P8S before the nerf.

SE wants the raids to be harder than they have been, but the rest of the game to be easier than it has been, from what I can see. Dungeons easier. Jobs easier. But they are redistributing that lost difficulty into the savage and ultimate raids where, some might argue, it belongs (I'm not going to say one way or the other, since I don't really care).

I wouldn't miss the 2-minute burst windows though, or burst windows in general. I loved PLD as it was without a single burst window. I loved how varied Dark Knight was with the abilities being on a variety of different cooldowns instead of now all being ready at 60 seconds.

[Absimiliard]

I think the 2-minute meta was meant to make raiding harder. SE could not scale DPS checks around aligned buffs because many raiders didn't care about it except statics and even some of those are probably too casual to care unless they are dying to enrage. Now that buff alignment is guaranteed in the class design, they can design the DPS checks around them and make the checks harder to meet even for the harder core raiders. As you explained, it seems to have succeeded in making it harder as well, considering even hardcore raiders were having trouble with P8S before the nerf.

SE wants the raids to be harder than they have been, but the rest of the game to be easier than it has been, from what I can see. Dungeons easier. Jobs easier. But they are redistributing that lost difficulty into the savage and ultimate raids where, some might argue, it belongs (I'm not going to say one way or the other, since I don't really care).

Hard disagree on that one. Raiding in EW is a cakewalk compared to what it was in Stormblood, excepting of course Omega Ultimate and one or two fights that were indisputably overtuned (P8S being one). If anything, the two-minute burst meta has made raiding a lot more approachable than it used to be. Rotations/priorities are far less complex. Fights remain predictable; mechanics just keep getting recycled, and you always know going in that every burst window is going to coincide with bosses throwing the kitchen sink at you.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Hard disagree on that one. Raiding in EW is a cakewalk compared to what it was in Stormblood, excepting of course Omega Ultimate and one or two fights that were indisputably overtuned (P8S being one). If anything, the two-minute burst meta has made raiding a lot more approachable than it used to be. Rotations/priorities are far less complex. Fights remain predictable; mechanics just keep getting recycled, and you always know going in that every burst window is going to coincide with bosses throwing the kitchen sink at you.

The problem with the 2 min burst is that it is incredibly, exceedingly, inflexible.



One mistake and your timing is ruined. Personally, I think they need to dump job synergy entirely. It makes things too static.

[Absimiliard]

The problem with the 2 min burst is that it is incredibly, exceedingly, inflexible.



One mistake and your timing is ruined. Personally, I think they need to dump job synergy entirely. It makes things too static.

That inflexibility does far more than simply make mistakes more punishing. It has also rather savagely curtailed player innovation, by which I mean there is little reason to experiment with alternative playstyles because of how hard you'll gimp yourself in doing so. Before, while still somewhat rare, you might actually stumble upon something outside the typical meta rotations that would give you a DPS boost. Granted, the two-minute meta gave us the dragon kick shenanigans for Monk that still hasn't been fixed, but that's a bit of an outlier.

Agreed on job synergy. You're more or less pigeonholed into "meta" group comps because of it. Then there's the whole job balance thing, which I feel rather justified in saying has been abysmal throughout most of the game's lifespan. Ditching the group utility/synergy in favor of a more direct approach would make the devs a lot more able to rein that in.

[Ghutts]

I don't know how many of you played FFXI. And I don't want to do a comparison. It's not fair, they're two different games and FFXIV should feel like it's own. But I do miss some of the party mechanics XI had. The most notable is the Thief. Having the off tank get aggro and the Thief using Sneak Attack & Trick Attack, then Viper Bite was awesome. Not only did this cause some big damage to the Mob, but it put all the aggro onto the main tank and helped keep the party organized. The Red Mage was amazing to have in party because they got a few spells that only they had access to. And it differentiated them from the WHM and BLM. In XIV they feel like an appendix. There, but not really helpful.
I would agree with a lot of the suggestions I see here already. Change the Tanks to Tanks. More shielding and Covering. Less focus on Dmg. Give the Healers some differing abilities to make the Healing more impactful, and make the healers feel like the Team anchors they really are. DPs abilities should have some flair to them. In XI the SAM had an ability, Third eye, which let him Tank a hit with no damage. This was perfect for Off Tanking as it let him mitigate some damage while the Healers focused on the Main Tank for a moment without the other party members getting reamed viciously. Even the Ninja could shadow Tank and that was crazy! Super Squishy DPS class Tanking like a boss was awesome to see.
Anyway I don't know if any of this was helpful but there it is.

[Shougun]

The problem with the 2 min burst is that it is incredibly, exceedingly, inflexible.



One mistake and your timing is ruined. Personally, I think they need to dump job synergy entirely. It makes things too static.

When they were having sneak attack and AST troubles or people were asking for buff classes and they were like .. nah lol, I thought one way to get them partially in vibe without too much issue was having limits on buffs. Like Enfire could grant extra potency up to 500. Debuff on monster that increases incoming damage up to Y.

If for the most part other job's buffs become their own and we leave the shared burst window I think it would be generally even more okay. Ultimately it's very shallow synergy, but for a job that wants that theme it could be there as an opportunity. I think the example I used previously was Hemorrhaging Spine and Melt Flesh for a blood / necro like mage- which caused the target enemy to take additional damage from their actions, as well from flank/rear, and ranged while the latter dealt instant damage and set damage per incoming attack up to a maximum.

Variations established on the variables, like Hemorrhaging Spine could have a 20 second duration and a maximum of 1000 potency. While Melt Flesh would be instant 250 potency, and additional 500 divided across 5 debuffs that each get consumed by an attack with a debuff duration of 7 seconds and resets at each consumption (from anyone, and multifold attacks could trigger the effect faster). But as the player owns the buff the buff is only 'buffed' by that player's stuff- so the Dark Knight or Ninja might kick off the buff faster than normal yet it would ultimately still 'usually' end at the same.

[hunkygladiator]

they can design the DPS checks around them and make the checks harder to meet even for the harder core raiders

Statics and players get filtered by DPS checks every single raid tier (or they insist on playing terrible comps like double phys ranged). This isn't new.

[Oizen]

I think the 2-minute meta was meant to make raiding harder. SE could not scale DPS checks around aligned buffs because many raiders didn't care about it except statics and even some of those are probably too casual to care unless they are dying to enrage. Now that buff alignment is guaranteed in the class design, they can design the DPS checks around them and make the checks harder to meet even for the harder core raiders. As you explained, it seems to have succeeded in making it harder as well, considering even hardcore raiders were having trouble with P8S before the nerf.

SE wants the raids to be harder than they have been, but the rest of the game to be easier than it has been, from what I can see. Dungeons easier. Jobs easier. But they are redistributing that lost difficulty into the savage and ultimate raids where, some might argue, it belongs (I'm not going to say one way or the other, since I don't really care).

I wouldn't miss the 2-minute burst windows though, or burst windows in general. I loved PLD as it was without a single burst window. I loved how varied Dark Knight was with the abilities being on a variety of different cooldowns instead of now all being ready at 60 seconds.

I'm pretty sure the 2m meta was made solely so developing fights was made easier for the developers.

[R041]

I'm pretty sure the 2m meta was made solely so developing fights was made easier for the developers.

Dev: "Oh, looks like players are confused or having trouble with this thing.. What should we do?"
Yoshi: "Can't stop the MSQ train to fix every little thing, just remove it!"

Repeat 100x since HW

Literally every change they make, I put it through the lens of easy/lazy dev and it all starts to make sense.

[Jeeqbit]

I'm pretty sure the 2m meta was made solely so developing fights was made easier for the developers.

That was part of what I was saying. They can't decide on a DPS check if players are not all approaching the fight in the same way so making them all align makes it easier for them.