Does FFXIV's combat system need an overhaul?

[Renathras]

Seeing general complaints about things and people's responses to questions (for example, here https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...playmechanics/ or here https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...anks-identical ), it seems there is a prevailing sense that the game's combat system is what needs an overhaul, not its graphics engine.

The biggest offender - and what makes EW have more of this feeling than any past expansion - seems to be the 2 min meta. What started out as a well-intentioned attempt to make raiding more approachable has clearly backfired. Not only did it not make raiding easier for the less intrepid, it forced a sameness to the Jobs where every Job is effectively in a cycle of 2 minutes of filler building and conserving resources and CDs to blow all at once in a burst. No matter how distinct some may try to be - Mudras, 1 min mini bursts, 30 sec micro Gnashing Fang bursts - the result is a sameness feel, as there are only so many ways to make a Job that meets the criteria of "blow everything at 2 min points, build and conserve resources and CDs to serve that goal in the meantime". It's even forced reworks of longstanding Jobs like SMN, MNK, and even mid-expansion, PLD, in order to force them to conform to the 2 min meta. Even the least affected Job by this, BLM, has been nudged slightly in its direction.

Secondarily, while FFXIV is exceptionally well balanced, it's SO balanced even a 1-2% deviation is enough to get a Job blacklisted from PF content if it is doing a bit below others. This also creates an environment where party buffs are highly valued, and lack of them requires something substantial to make up for it. MCH had to have dismantle readded, and MCH, PLD, RDM, and WAR have, to various extents, also been blacklisted over the course of the expansion, despite doing (particularly in the case of the Tanks) almost identical damage to their peers.

This is the result of hyper-fine-tuned fight Enrage checks that force players to prioritize DPS above anything and everything else (other than - and sometimes even - mitigation to survive mechanics), leading to the most minor of differences being made out as uncrossable chasms.

People often mention how Jobs were once more distinct, but those were in the before-times, when hyper-tight DPS checks were uncommon, percent damage output differences were tolerated, sustain vs burst DPS was a viable Job encounter damage profile, and gameplay revolving around buffs and utility was either more prized or, at the least, not mocked and condemned vs damage output.

People also have largely praised the PvP mechanics of Jobs, which despite being toolkits a fraction of the PvE size, often feel more engaging and freeform since you have freedom in when to use your CDs and your various abilities are more available than once every 2 minutes or rigidly in service to having to hoard resources and CDs for that 2 min burst.

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From what people have said, it strikes me that the 2 min burst meta MUST go come 7.0. It seems to have been highly destructive to the game, both in encounter design and Job homogeneity.

After that, encounter DPS checks seem in need of some loosening. Part of made MCH and PLD in particular blacklisted was the DPS checks of the bosses being so tight that 1% less DPS for the party literally COULD result in failing Enrage vs clearing the encounter.

And finally, Jobs need to be allowed to branch out into niches and accepted for bringing more unique flavors and styles to the combat game in all ways - damage profiles and rotations, definitely, but also healing, tanking, and buffing need not be so carbon copy.

[EDIT2: Oh, and hitboxes. Smaller hitboxes on bosses.]

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But, perhaps I'm misreading the situation and the community responses?

So I thought I'd present this here, and see what you good folks think about the matter.

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EDIT: Also posting this here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...d_an_overhaul/

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Does it? Yes. It shouldn't become an action game though.



What it needs is for tanks to become tanks again, and healers to become healers again.



The addition of more damage abilities than mitigation abilities to tank jobs is an atrocity.

[Absimiliard]

They need to take a look at the engine and netcode as well. In order to keep the game relevant going forward, they really need to be able to make the fights reactive rather than constantly relying on glorified, pre-planned DDR. Memorization is fine, but it can't the only trick in their proverbial hat.

[Amenara]

I would love some jobs with priority systems and proc based combat instead of strict rotations. Would be a fan if DPS buffs became personal CDs with different timers or ways to reduce the timers.

[Jeeqbit]

The biggest offender - and what makes EW have more of this feeling than any past expansion - seems to be the 2 min meta. What started out as a well-intentioned attempt to make raiding more approachable has clearly backfired. Not only did it not make raiding easier for the less intrepid

I think the 2-minute meta was meant to make raiding harder. SE could not scale DPS checks around aligned buffs because many raiders didn't care about it except statics and even some of those are probably too casual to care unless they are dying to enrage. Now that buff alignment is guaranteed in the class design, they can design the DPS checks around them and make the checks harder to meet even for the harder core raiders. As you explained, it seems to have succeeded in making it harder as well, considering even hardcore raiders were having trouble with P8S before the nerf.

SE wants the raids to be harder than they have been, but the rest of the game to be easier than it has been, from what I can see. Dungeons easier. Jobs easier. But they are redistributing that lost difficulty into the savage and ultimate raids where, some might argue, it belongs (I'm not going to say one way or the other, since I don't really care).

I wouldn't miss the 2-minute burst windows though, or burst windows in general. I loved PLD as it was without a single burst window. I loved how varied Dark Knight was with the abilities being on a variety of different cooldowns instead of now all being ready at 60 seconds.

[DiaDeem]

the game's combat system is what needs an overhaul, not its graphics engine

Ok, before you go any further, let's not let this one fester in.

Regardless of what you think of the combat system, that doesn't mean we don't need a graphical overhaul, so don't go around saying we don't really need one or that for some reason doing one eliminates the other. These are not mutually exclusive and I don't understand why you'd preface your post by introducing them as such.

Do we need a combat overhaul? I don't think we do beyond revamping a few abilities to make things a bit more interesting.
Do we need a graphical update? Yes

They're not mutually exclusive.

Ok, continue.

[Absimiliard]

I think the 2-minute meta was meant to make raiding harder. SE could not scale DPS checks around aligned buffs because many raiders didn't care about it except statics and even some of those are probably too casual to care unless they are dying to enrage. Now that buff alignment is guaranteed in the class design, they can design the DPS checks around them and make the checks harder to meet even for the harder core raiders. As you explained, it seems to have succeeded in making it harder as well, considering even hardcore raiders were having trouble with P8S before the nerf.

SE wants the raids to be harder than they have been, but the rest of the game to be easier than it has been, from what I can see. Dungeons easier. Jobs easier. But they are redistributing that lost difficulty into the savage and ultimate raids where, some might argue, it belongs (I'm not going to say one way or the other, since I don't really care).

Hard disagree on that one. Raiding in EW is a cakewalk compared to what it was in Stormblood, excepting of course Omega Ultimate and one or two fights that were indisputably overtuned (P8S being one). If anything, the two-minute burst meta has made raiding a lot more approachable than it used to be. Rotations/priorities are far less complex. Fights remain predictable; mechanics just keep getting recycled, and you always know going in that every burst window is going to coincide with bosses throwing the kitchen sink at you.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Hard disagree on that one. Raiding in EW is a cakewalk compared to what it was in Stormblood, excepting of course Omega Ultimate and one or two fights that were indisputably overtuned (P8S being one). If anything, the two-minute burst meta has made raiding a lot more approachable than it used to be. Rotations/priorities are far less complex. Fights remain predictable; mechanics just keep getting recycled, and you always know going in that every burst window is going to coincide with bosses throwing the kitchen sink at you.

The problem with the 2 min burst is that it is incredibly, exceedingly, inflexible.



One mistake and your timing is ruined. Personally, I think they need to dump job synergy entirely. It makes things too static.

[R041]

Ok, before you go any further, let's not let this one fester in.

Regardless of what you think of the combat system, that doesn't mean we don't need a graphical overhaul, so don't go around saying we don't really need one or that for some reason doing one eliminates the other. These are not mutually exclusive and I don't understand why you'd preface your post by introducing them as such.

Do we need a combat overhaul? I don't think we do beyond revamping a few abilities to make things a bit more interesting.
Do we need a graphical update? Yes

They're not mutually exclusive.

Ok, continue.

Combat can't keep existing with the jank snapshots.

We need a godamn everything overhaul. Gimme another Calamity, I'm ready.

[Absimiliard]

The problem with the 2 min burst is that it is incredibly, exceedingly, inflexible.



One mistake and your timing is ruined. Personally, I think they need to dump job synergy entirely. It makes things too static.

That inflexibility does far more than simply make mistakes more punishing. It has also rather savagely curtailed player innovation, by which I mean there is little reason to experiment with alternative playstyles because of how hard you'll gimp yourself in doing so. Before, while still somewhat rare, you might actually stumble upon something outside the typical meta rotations that would give you a DPS boost. Granted, the two-minute meta gave us the dragon kick shenanigans for Monk that still hasn't been fixed, but that's a bit of an outlier.

Agreed on job synergy. You're more or less pigeonholed into "meta" group comps because of it. Then there's the whole job balance thing, which I feel rather justified in saying has been abysmal throughout most of the game's lifespan. Ditching the group utility/synergy in favor of a more direct approach would make the devs a lot more able to rein that in.