How to Restore Confidence in FFXIV

[Elizabetha]

This entire huge thread... The Japanese will never respect Gaijin opinions.

Never.

It really IS that simple. It is sad, but that's how it is.

Enjoy what you can. If there's not enough... you're better off moving on.

[CelestiCer]

Most of what you said makes sense to complain about, but...

This is just a lack of understanding of what SE was trying to do. You were going to a land of despair and they wanted you to feel despair. The problem is you were feeling happy and confident. In order to change that, they had to kill the scions. Once you had made progress through the area, in order to make you feel hope and like there was a light at the end of the tunnel, they had to introduce the possibility they would come back.

Wished you'd have quoted what I said before that as well " What has been the general complaints of the forum posters about Endwalker? excl. the troll posts " to give it some context since I sifted through posts to just compile a quick list on what I saw general posters complaining about.

I'm not misunderstanding anything either? Endwalker story felt underwhelming to me personally and liking a story is very subjective.

• Scions going through plot armor again is becoming old
• Garlemald being another ruined City feels underwhelming
• I liked nothing about how Fandaniel was written
• Disliked how Zodiark story-wise was a incomplete pushover
• Body-swapping? really felt like there's a plot-hole here

Unironically, " The Final Days " a calamity feels less intense then " Zadnor " to me. Oh to which also everyone important survived the Final days cause big surprise there. To much " Plot Armor " sprinkled all over the place for me to enjoy Endwalker's story aside from realizing that I was beating up " In-game Twitter " with the " power-of-friendship " no less...

What we like and do not like about Endwalker varies per player and is subjective. Clearly there's a big portion of players that do not like Endwalker, otherwise it wouldn't be getting so much negativity vs say the previous expansion Shadowbringers.

The thread is about " confidence " and there's very little in how Endwalker was handled beyond just the story? that gives me confidence going forward. If you're unfazed on how XIV goes forward? well done you. The only " Despair " I experienced from Endwalker were the Job Changes. And just so we're clear? personal opinion, it's subjective. We don't want more misunderstandings I hope, mhm.

[BRVV]

It made me feel despair of the overall future of the game, so they succeeded at making me feel that way. In fact bringing the scions back wasn't entirely enough to get rid of that despair. So apparently they delayed Endwalker to add in Emet's lines about places we haven't been yet.

I'm not worried about that at all with the current writers. Endsinger was clearly made up during EW and then shoehorned in. We can get basically anything like this. Just give us something new and have us use the echo (remember that?) or if you forgot it time travel to trick it into "always" being in the story.

7.0 prediction: The endsinger wasn't ACTUALLY gonna destroy the whole universe! But discount Thanos will be! He collected the McGuffin Burgers from the new zones! He was the evil entity that corrupted the Endsinger! #TiedBackToTheOriginal

[Deo14]

I have to disagree that it's not relevant. New players are paying customers just the same as the veteran players. Even if the side content is optional, many new players feel like it's content they have to catch up on because it's there.

The playable part of content this expansion isn't in worse shape than last expansion quantity wise. There have been some changes (such as Deep Dungeon instead of exploration zone, getting Variant/Criterion while the normal trial series got merged into MSQ instead of a separate quest chain, etc.) but we're getting just as much playable content overall.

It sounds more like the quality of the content and/or the rewards making the content less interesting to repeat.

What made Eden more interesting to repeat than Pandaemonium has been?

What made the Sorrows of Werlyt trials more interesting to repeat than Storm's Crown/Mount Ordeals?

It's a lot more difficult to try to compare Bozja/Zadnor versus Eureka Orthos/Si'dihn Subteranne because they're different content types but what kept people going back into the former while they ignore the latter?

Was there other content they were doing in Shadowbringers to fill time that doesn't have an equivalent this expansion, and what was so appealing about it?

I think comparing SB to EW would be more accurate, since SB had Eureka and DD, while EW has DD and 2 new types of content. Let's give EW small benefit and call HoH and EO equal. I'm not super passionate DD player, but I think HoH > EO, especially since HoH innovated DD, while EO is just HoH V2 without any major innovation. Only big change is dread beasts, but you just one shot it with pom of storm or skip it entirely.

So now that both DDs negate each other, we are left with Eureka vs IS and V&C.

Eureka is 4 maps + Baldesion arsenal. There is multiple new progression systems inside - your elemental level, element attunement, some very rare drops that have special effects inside Eureka and most importantly, logograms for Pyros and up. There is relic weapon progression for all of these maps + relic armor for Anemos (granted it's just dyeable artifact armor) and brand new relic armor sets for Pyros, Hydatos and BA. There are also that special chestpieces that give elemental bonus, which are still costy today. You can still sell logos for pretty good profit, too.

As for EW, there is IS, which, let's be real, is just excel simulator, everything on the island is there just to fuel the workshop. You can leisurely get max rank while playing 20-30 minutes per day for 2 weeks, after that, content is finished and you're left with checking out your island for 3 minutes per week. All the while entire content is barely connected to the main game.

Then V&C, which is great but has no incentives to run it again. There isn't really a progression, even though it has system similar to logos/lost actions. There is only 5 very basic, bland spells. Jump from variant to ASS is too big, which is shame since there is lack of content in between normal and EX/Savage content. But there is still benefit of doubt, since there should be 2 more dungeons released and rewards should be improved according to last LL. Whether that means more materia and one time rewards remains to be seen.

So I'm not going tell you that you are wrong for enjoying EW (unlike some people in here who try to convince me that I hate this game). If you don't play much I can see people enjoying simple one and done content like IS and V&C more than Eureka, but if you want to play more than 2 weeks per patch, then I think past expansions are much better for that.

[Jeeqbit]

Scions going through plot armor again is becoming old

Perhaps in general, but in the context of that very specific area that just wasn't their goal. Maybe they could have had despair consume one of them earlier in the story at Thavnair or something like that, sure.

Garlemald being another ruined City feels underwhelming

I'd admit I was a bit tired of always dealing with ruins and relics of the past instead of a thriving nation. I want to see an Allagan or Ronkan empire that is still thriving, a thriving Doma that isn't just a tiny square that we salvaged, Monks that aren't just a few survivors remaking the art, I could go on but so often, it's just rubble and ruins as if we missed the party.

I try to remind myself that as a sprout I was excited to see Sharlayan in the Hinterlands only to find rubble, but was finally able to see a thriving version in Endwalker or that we have modern thriving civlizations like the Grand Companies, Ironworks or Kugane.

So now that both DDs negate each other, we are left with Eureka vs IS and V&C.

Island Sanctuary is one map, but as of 6.4 will have had 2-3 increases to the ranks (like Eureka had increases to the level). Additional progression systems involve the quests, the workshop system, gathering enough materials and buying all the rewards. There are rare animals to obtain for your farm (although not FF11 rare). V&C have rare minion drops and a mount. Both Island Sanctuary and V&C have special actions similar to logograms.

There is relic weapon progression for all of these maps

Obviously we get that with Hildibrand now and it's much quicker. Special effects on armor seem to have happened for the raid armor instead.

You can still sell logos for pretty good profit, too.

You can sell V&C minions or crafter and gatherer materia from Island Sanctuary for a good profit too.

You can leisurely get max rank while playing 20-30 minutes per day for 2 weeks

Technically you could probably do that with Eureka as well. When it was current, I did each area in just a few 3-hour sessions. If we split 9 hours up into 30 minutes a day, it would take 18 days, which is close enough. Let's include Variant dungeons, which have multiple routes and we will have 3 of, in place of the other 3 areas. There just isn't the social interaction involved.

Of course, bosses and some area design are put into 3 V&C, Ocean Fishing, or the MSQ changes (although a small portion of that could come from the HM dungeons we got in Stormblood).

[Deo14]

Island Sanctuary is one map, but as of 6.4 will have had 2-3 increases to the ranks (like Eureka had increases to the level). Additional progression systems involve the quests, the workshop system, gathering enough materials and buying all the rewards. There are rare animals to obtain for your farm (although not FF11 rare).

Last increase to rank (10-12) was more of the same, just another glam set and other one time rewards. Nice of you to mention quests, since Eureka had them and they even had real story, unlike IS. Island upgrades are nice, I wouldn't mind comparing it to elemental level progression.

V&C have rare minion drops and a mount.

Most of the regular content has rare minion drop and some mount as a reward, this isn't meaningful progression.

Both Island Sanctuary and V&C have special actions similar to logograms.

I have no clue what special actions of IS you mean, maybe that weird sprint which is bound as duty action, instead of putting it in place of an actual sprint? And V&C has five (5!) special actions which are bland and void of any creativity. Eureka has 50+ logos, many of which have very creative effects, like reflects and similar.

Obviously we get that with Hildibrand now and it's much quicker. Special effects on armor seem to have happened for the raid armor instead.

You could replace Hildibrand with just a Gerolt and much wouldn't change. It shouldn't be quicker, point of relic is (was) that there is some prestige in getting them. Now they're just alternate tome weapons. Those special effects are only on abyssos right now, I don't think there is some correlation.

You can sell V&C minions or crafter and gatherer materia from Island Sanctuary for a good profit too.

Rare drops are unreliable source of income. Materia from IS is timegated, so it's just a passive income. Unless you want to click on nodes 24/7, in which case, regular DoH/DoL activities are much more effective.

Technically you could probably do that with Eureka as well. When it was current, I did each area in just a few 3-hour sessions. If we split 9 hours up into 30 minutes a day, it would take 18 days, which is close enough. Let's include Variant dungeons, which have multiple routes and we will have 3 of, in place of the other 3 areas. There just isn't the social interaction involved.

You do IS once and you're done, same with V&C. You do Eureka relic from start to finish and you have 14 other relics to get. And after that, you can still make profit from just logos.

Also you did not account that Eureka takes much longer first time you do it because of leveling.

[Jeeqbit]

Last increase to rank (10-12) was more of the same, just another glam set and other one time rewards.

Could argue that other Eureka areas were "more of the same". More NMs, another big boss that drops an important item, a level cap increase.

Nice of you to mention quests, since Eureka had them and they even had real story, unlike IS.

V&C have the real story I suppose.

Most of the regular content has rare minion drop and some mount as a reward, this isn't meaningful progression.

So then neither is most of the loot in Eureka.

I have no clue what special actions of IS you mean

All the ones to feed animals, sow seeds, gather things, the V&C dot, mitigation, heals and rez. They aren't as spectacular as logos or lost actions, but they involve similar development. We could argue all the individual items and plants we pick and grow are using similar development work, because icons are made for them.

You do IS once and you're done, same with V&C. You do Eureka relic from start to finish and you have 14 other relics to get.

I agree. Although it does depend. You have to run Variant dungeons multiple times for the mount and can farm them for the minions and other rewards. You have a lot of Criterion runs to do if you want the mount. But I agree it's not the same as having lots of relics to do making the content replayable. They are also really boring to repeat, especially Variant dungeons (I gave up and just bought the minions).

Also you did not account that Eureka takes much longer first time you do it because of leveling.

I did. It only took me a few sessions of 3 hours per area, when it was current. I did it extremely casually between other content I was into, yet enjoyed every second of it.

[Kacho_Nacho]

I don't really clamor for all the Scions to be gone, I doubt I'd enjoy that all that much. But is one or two not being there for a quest or two too much to ask? People speak a lot of guff about them not all being present at one time, but at least one or two of them is nearly always present with nearly no breaks. I don't personally feel this way, but I don't blame those who are sick of them. Variety is the spice of life after all, and Zero can only cover so much ground in that regard.

It isn't that I hate them. It's that I feel their individual story arcs are mostly completed, and with the end of the world avoided, I feel continuing with a Scions heavy storyline would just be more of the same thing.

In fact, I think the developers painted themselves in a corner with EW. What can the WoL do to top saving the entire Universe? Suggesting some warlord in the void world is somehow a threat to the person who beat the most powerful threat in all existence is downright silly.

I know it's just a game but there's got to be some logic involved in the storyline.

[Jeeqbit]

I feel continuing with a Scions heavy storyline would just be more of the same thing.

I think so too. They can still be there, retired, but we need a new gang in a new place.

What can the WoL due to top saving the entire Universe?

It's because it's a Final Fantasy game. In Final Fantasy games, you save the world or the universe. This has been what it leads to in any Final Fantasy game I have played. So Yoshi-P feels that he has to match that fantasy and go with whatever will involve saving the world with the most fantasy he can find.

The downside of that is obvious. When they've saved the universe, anything else seems like retirement for the Warrior of Light. Saving a city from a local crime lord and their army? That is actually what the Warrior of Light will do as retirement when they are 80, and they will do it with only one hand blind-folded, just to even the odds.

But it's not as if I haven't started a new story before by playing other games or watching other films, and sometimes the unfamiliar can temporarily be challenging even to the greatest hero until they adapt. So maybe we will find something of lesser threat to be challenging at first, then we'll see how it moves and defeat it. Like everything else. I am certain that will be how they explain it because that is how they explained it in Stormblood. Zenos wouldn't normally be a threat to us, but the resonant was unfamiliar to us so it took us a bit to adapt to it, but then we defeated him like all the rest.

[Deo14]

Could argue that other Eureka areas were "more of the same". More NMs, another big boss that drops an important item, a level cap increase.

I think that brand new maps and bosses are better than new glam set and few new materials, which are effectively just a bunch of .jpgs and some item descriptions. We'll see what new updates brings, but so far, it's really barebones. I was hoping for new features or new map area, not just more of the same. But I honestly don't think I can really enjoy IS anymore. Reaching rank 10 killed it for me, since flying just completely ruins any immersion.

V&C have the real story I suppose.

Can't comment on that, I just skimmed through most of it.

So then neither is most of the loot in Eureka.

Most of the loot in Eureka is logograms and gil from bunnies. Rare items are just sprinkles on top. Unfortunately, plenty of content in the game only has these sprinkles.

All the ones to feed animals, sow seeds, gather things, the V&C dot, mitigation, heals and rez. They aren't as spectacular as logos or lost actions, but they involve similar development. We could argue all the individual items and plants we pick and grow are using similar development work, because icons are made for them.

I would really not call feeding an animal "special action". As for V&C actions, yes, they are simply bland and give no creativity, it doesn't matter they involve "similar development", they're hardly comparable on what they bring to a table.

I agree. Although it does depend. You have to run Variant dungeons multiple times for the mount and can farm them for the minions and other rewards. You have a lot of Criterion runs to do if you want the mount. But I agree it's not the same as having lots of relics to do making the content replayable. They are also really boring to repeat, especially Variant dungeons (I gave up and just bought the minions).

All we can hope is that they will fix those rewards. It's such a shame that good content died because they expected that people will be happy to run content just for the hell of it. On the flipside, I haven't see many people claiming that "content needs no rewards" since V&C released.