More in-depth tutorials for PvE job & PvP: yay or nay?

[Turnintino]

I think it'd be a little unnecessary to amend (more detailed) tutorials to jobs attached to base classes, since there's a lot more room to learn those organically while leveling. But I do wish there was a little more guidance for jobs you unlock with fuller kits, as a kind of catch-up on the basics.

[NekoMataMata]

Been replaying the game on an alt and I'm at the 50 of Ninja and the tutorial of it is OK...till 45. When you unlock your final mudra ( which opens up a large chunk of your mudra abilities ) they are like ok it does this, this, and this OK LET'S GOOOO!

The ones before it they put you in a training scenario to actually use them.

Yeah, the Ninja questline literally has you hit dummies your new abilities at the beginning.

The bit before the last couple of quests was more so due to Oboro rushing you in the story to prepare you for the upcoming fights. It's still better than hitting training dummies.

Anyways, as for the OP... I don't really see the benefit. It won't help most people unless you're going to handhold them through every detail of their job's abilities/skills.

They could update some of the job quest dialogue though. Some job quests make mention to old abilities/skills that were removed.

[Jeeqbit]

As for PvP...I don't really agree, let's take Crystalline Conflict for example: Pushing the crystal is the only way to win. However, I've seen plenty of people being frustrated because their teammates would be more focused on killing the enemies rather than pushing the crystal, because like you said, killing enemies is an obvious objective. That's why I think, a match with bots to learn the basics and telling the player 'the main objective is pushing the crystal!' might solve these problems..But I might be too optimistic...?

The Feast was the most direct PvP I remember, because you actually just had to kill the other team and collect their medals. That's it. Crystalline Conflict replaced it, and although there is an objective, killing the other team is part of achieving it because if you don't, they will prevent you completing the objective.

The problem with The Feast was that it was not as popular as Crystalline Conflict. One of the problems was that it required 1 tank, 1 healer and 2 DPS per team (8 people) and certain roles are notoriously rare in games like this (tanks and healers). The other problem was that the healer would keep everyone alive on either team for 10 minutes or more, until finally a death happened. If you were very lucky, then the healer was new and the match was over in a few seconds. Now it's capped at 5 minutes with occasional overtime. The other problem with The Feast was actually the reward structure, where only the top 100 got them, making a person think that since they won't be in the top 100, what is the point in doing this?

Crystalline Conflict is not otherwise much different than The Feast, yet oddly people's perception of PvP transformed from "PvP isn't good in this game" to "PvP has been overhauled and is really good now" because of the rebrand alone.

[Turnintino]

Crystalline Conflict is not otherwise much different than The Feast, yet oddly people's perception of PvP transformed from "PvP isn't good in this game" to "PvP has been overhauled and is really good now" because of the rebrand alone.

I think it's down to nothing more than accessibility. What changes they made to the format just made the mode feel more accessible to the average player, and arguably more worth the effort, since the primary incentive is generally the rewards.

That said, I'd started playing just a few months before the overhaul dropped, and most of my PvP friends hated the change. I had to hear them complain about it for months lol. Meanwhile, as someone who doesn't particularly enjoy PvP either way, I felt the changes made my experience feel a lot more streamlined/intuitive. And CC itself just being a lot more bite-sized in both scale and time limit goes a long way too, as you said.

[Themarvin]

It is not really needed due to the jobs has been made much easier to play compared to 2.0 and 3.0