2-minute meta

[RitsukoSonoda]

That's because the 2 minute constraint and thematically unique rotations are mutually exclusive designs. Everything has to revolve around the buff window or you end up with a 6.0 paladin situation where it literally can't compete, but if everything needs to be a divisor of 120 seconds all jobs consequently become uninspired bland slop, almost interchangeable with each other.

part of what could have probably solved a lot of the buff window issues would have been similar buffs overwriting each other instead of stacking. There would have been fair amount less of the "mash all your stuff in this small window" going on and more coordination on an overall cycling.

[Colt47]

The way the calculate damage from buffs is awful to begin with and they sort of chose to do the 2 minute window to make it easier to stack all the buffs just to create the big dps increases during boss fights. The game would be 100% better if the buffs didn't act as multipliers onto each other and were just flat increases, since that way it doesn't matter how someone uses a buff and people can actually focus on getting good at their job rotations.

[Heroman3003]

part of what could have probably solved a lot of the buff window issues would have been similar buffs overwriting each other instead of stacking. There would have been fair amount less of the "mash all your stuff in this small window" going on and more coordination on an overall cycling.

That would just get people complaining about their buffs being 'wasted' instead tbh. There's no winning with these 'minor but essential for high difficulty content' kinda buff things, whichever design you choose will have problems inheirent to it.

[mallleable]

That's because the 2 minute constraint and thematically unique rotations are mutually exclusive designs. Everything has to revolve around the buff window or you end up with a 6.0 paladin situation where it literally can't compete, but if everything needs to be a divisor of 120 seconds all jobs consequently become uninspired bland slop, almost interchangeable with each other.

To me, a rotation can be abstracted to a series of inputs over time, kinda like how music is a series of sounds over time. It is absolutely possible to make VASTLY different sounding songs that have the same length so I believe the same is possible for job rotations. The two ideas are not at odds with each other.

Also I am like the worst person to be lamenting old PLD because I did not like it, and think the the rework is better, and has more room to grow even if it is kinda boring now. To me, PLD's old rotation felt like it was two separate ideas that were not coherently linked together, and kinda felt at odds with eachother -- even before Endwalker. I am really curious to see how they expand upon Devine Might as a job mechanic in DT.

[Bladedance87]

Is this a pro joke im too casual to understand? Dont care about 2min meta with my sam. But i feel you. I would love to have different job designs too. They all feel too similar.

[Supersnow845]

To me, a rotation can be abstracted to a series of inputs over time, kinda like how music is a series of sounds over time. It is absolutely possible to make VASTLY different sounding songs that have the same length so I believe the same is possible for job rotations. The two ideas are not at odds with each other.

Also I am like the worst person to be lamenting old PLD because I did not like it, and think the the rework is better, and has more room to grow even if it is kinda boring now. To me, PLD's old rotation felt like it was two separate ideas that were not coherently linked together, and kinda felt at odds with eachother -- even before Endwalker. I am really curious to see how they expand upon Devine Might as a job mechanic in DT.

When has square enix once shown they can make a job simpler as a template to later make it makes complex (ie “build off”) and actually succeeded at that goal

[RitsukoSonoda]

That would just get people complaining about their buffs being 'wasted' instead tbh. There's no winning with these 'minor but essential for high difficulty content' kinda buff things, whichever design you choose will have problems inheirent to it.

However that would have been a problem primarily limited to the people doing said content rather than the route they took which resulted in the job homogenization we've been steadily experiencing which has honestly been a mostly negative experience for the players not obsessed with numbers seen on a 3rd party tool the devs said not to use in the first place.

[mallleable]

When has square enix once shown they can make a job simpler as a template to later make it makes complex (ie “build off”) and actually succeeded at that goal

MNK

They killed Greased Lightning management, and added Masterful Blitz.

[Supersnow845]

MNK

They Killed Greased lightning management, and added Masterful Blitz.

MNK wasn’t made simpler first as a foundation they just changed its mechanic

The healers, MCH and WAR are examples of jobs they “made simpler to change later to be better” then proceeded to never do anything remotely interesting with

[mallleable]

MNK wasn’t made simpler first as a foundation they just changed its mechanic

The healers, MCH and WAR are examples of jobs they “made simpler to change later to be better” then proceeded to never do anything remotely interesting with

5.4 MNK was them making it simpler before adding Blitzes.

And okay, I can agree they don't know what they're doing with healers. lol

As for WAR, and MCH it's tricky. I feel like WAR kinda works being a simple job because it reflects its identity as a berserker -- 'your axe does the thinking so you don't have to.' And I do think they're cooking something with MCH -- especially with its pvp version. They just have to pull the trigger -- pun not intended.