A summary of healer issues

[OdinelStarrei]

This is a pretty unfortunate truth about the Healer forum. But I think it's why it's that way. I'm like the only person that consistently pokes the bear in there by having a different opinion. Most other people come in, get absolutely dumped on, and leave. But because they do, the majority thinks they represent everyone and keep doing it. When I point out they drive people away, so they aren't a true majority, they're a toxic echo chamber, they just...well, dump on me more, but I'm used to it at this point, I guess? XD

We really could use more dissenting voices in there, though.

EDIT:



It's...still pretty bad.

Dude, what are you talking about? If you go to NASA, try to proclaim that the world is flat, and that everyone who doesn't agree is stuck in a toxic echo-chamber for calling you out, you're not portraying ANY side properly.

Having a different opinion from the majority does not inherently give said opinion more individual value. There is no debate left to be had, nor is there any need to be one! Who gives a shit if they are pushing people away from this miserable cesspool, particularly when we're a pointless minority anyway? The design of the entire combat system is not going to bend to appease some over-dedicated players on the forums. Nothing they do matters! If the developers would come on here and directly tell each and everyone one of us thanks for the money, now get out and stop asking for the SAME things we've been asking for four years, they would if they didn't have the PR fallout to worry about.


Healers are NOT changing! Tanks are NOT changing! The reality that that Class forums want for this game will NEVER happen! Our "opinions" are WORTHLESS. Why isn't that simple fact good enough? There is no need for a dissenting voice for players who are CONVINCED Square Enix has wronged them! The reality and hopelessness of the situation in their minds is loud enough without chucklenut #67032 saying "Actually it's fine, your experience is irrelevant". Just let us be miserable!

Now, all that said, I also know where you are coming from about being the jaded old guard of a game who has witnessed the very fundamentals of the game you love, change into something you despise. I am genuinely sorry that happened. It sucks. I wasn't around pre Shadowbringers, so i dont know what the game was like back then but im very sorry you seem to feel like youve had a hobby that you love taken away from you. I dont want that for you or anyone. But I would be lying if I said I wasn't here for it. I regret that what I want for the game doesn't match up with what so many others do. But im still here for it.

I'm going to keep this for reference for every single time I think about coming back here, and try to get as many of my miserable friends that are left out of this game as possible. I am so sick of seeing them so unhappy. Our game is gone. At the very least, you acknowledged there were losers in this. Goddamn, I lost so much. I should have never started playing FFXIV.

[Sebazy]

I visited the healer forums once. It was an echo chamber of salt. And when I dared speak my own opinion about how I liked healer as it is now, they got extremely vitriolic. So why would I pay attention to anything other than general discussion, which has arguably less vitriol.

You mean the thread where you tried to call my factual and verifiable math 'anecdotal' despite having zero personal experience in said content or era?

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5685240

I guess simply correcting you is extremely vitriolic now

If you want a great example of how low the healer skill ceiling is right now. I just landed a 94 percentile damage in non BiS gear running Lapis with only GCD heals (Basically Regen and Lilies). It's just beyond a joke now.

People managed just fine when content, like Titan HM and early AK was the norm. Now the devs and player base are equally terrified of even the merest hint of failure even though there's barely any consequences for it.

Personally I find playing healer is pretty fun, focus targeting a DPS, hitting Nascent flash and being able to get both their and my own HP to max in a few attacks feels pretty good.
I don't get why people don't like playing healer, Its pretty satisfying.

Best comment of the thread tbh++

[fulminating]

Incoming damage cannot be increased because it'll kill raiding as a whole, look how few healers there have been this tier with the increased pressure on healers. If casual content requires healers being remotely competent then firstly it'll be hilarious and secondly the role will be even deader.

The gameplay loop of healers is entirely wrong for the game. Both other roles interact with their niche through damage - which with timed enrages is all that matters. Aggro is generated through damage, or healing at a push, and bloodwhetting, TBN and vengeance all combine damage with sustain. HW warrior even took this a step further with abandon stacks being generated from vengeance/raw intuition. Healers have energy drain and lilies. Kardia doesn't even count because it's just a fairy that can't be relied on when you need to gcd heal.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Incoming damage cannot be increased because it'll kill raiding as a whole, look how few healers there have been this tier with the increased pressure on healers. If casual content requires healers being remotely competent then firstly it'll be hilarious and secondly the role will be even deader.

Precisely.

When we still have Timmy the Medica II Mage running around letting people die (unintentionally, unfortunately) because they do not know how to utilize 30% - 100% of their entire healing kits from bottom casual to EX/Savage+ contents as of today, what makes people think raising incoming damage would magically 'fix' the issue, if it fixes any at all in the future?

Lmao, really.

[EgilTheStressedMage]

I visited the healer forums once. It was an echo chamber of salt. And when I dared speak my own opinion about how I liked healer as it is now, they got extremely vitriolic. So why would I pay attention to anything other than general discussion, which has arguably less vitriol.

It has less vitriol because the more acidic users left. This place was literally Dead Ends’ Judgment Day a year ago.

[hunkygladiator]

Ahem, not to put too fine a point on it but...have you looked at your profile lately on Lodestone? It seems unsearchable on the forbidden site, but I don't see Savage clear mounts or Extreme mounts under that Mount tab. Easy to cast stones when you make it where others can't verify how you stack up to your own standard... <_<

It's really easy to verify. I don't exactly try to hide anything. Look up Skiros.

[hunkygladiator]

Arguably, and quite hilariously, that could actually be contrary to current design philosophy.
As it stands, the healers are expected to do ~15-20% of the team damage. By making fights do more damage, and forcing healers to heal more, you're reducing their effective DPS over a fight.

If Healers are expected to heal more, they're necessarily expected to DPS less, which seems contrary to how they've designed fights recently.

Imagine the original P8S P1 enrage check with less healer DPS

Week 1 healer DPS checks always required pretty optimized healing with minimal GCDs. This isn't set in stone. O4S P1 which spammed White Hole again and again was the same deal.

[hunkygladiator]

Incoming damage cannot be increased because it'll kill raiding as a whole, look how few healers there have been this tier with the increased pressure on healers. If casual content requires healers being remotely competent then firstly it'll be hilarious and secondly the role will be even deader.

The gameplay loop of healers is entirely wrong for the game. Both other roles interact with their niche through damage - which with timed enrages is all that matters. Aggro is generated through damage, or healing at a push, and bloodwhetting, TBN and vengeance all combine damage with sustain. HW warrior even took this a step further with abandon stacks being generated from vengeance/raw intuition. Healers have energy drain and lilies. Kardia doesn't even count because it's just a fairy that can't be relied on when you need to gcd heal.

Lol the high end healers I know mostly quit because healing got mind-numbingly boring. Since ShB. Not because there's pressure.

[fulminating]

Lol the high end healers I know mostly quit because healing got mind-numbingly boring. Since ShB. Not because there's pressure.

It's amazing really. They're too boring for competent players and the slightest bit of challenge makes them too difficult for the lower end. You couldn't design a system like this intentionally.

[Kickwars]

It's amazing really. They're too boring for competent players and the slightest bit of challenge makes them too difficult for the lower end. You couldn't design a system like this intentionally.

Honestly they should just cater to the top-end while minimizing the damage gap between the skill floor and the skill ceiling. Technically you can just win everything below Ultimate by using only Cure II, Regen, and Medica II (in Savage, once you get +20 ilvl gear). Back in HW if you were a newbie healer you just choose to NOT use Cleric Stance. Sure people gave you crap for it but most people didn't begrudge a sprout healer not using Cleric Stance. Same goes for tanking. You can just stay in tank stance the entire fight even in Savage. Elitists will give you crap but most people don't care. Everything was clearable with perma tank stance more or less.

There are ALWAYS options for very simple gameplay on a complex class. Don't like caster bard? Literally just don't toggle Minuet. Don't like positionals? Just... don't hit them? They literally don't matter in 99% of content? Don't like HW/SB astro cards? Just use Spire and Ewer on yourself and use the other cards randomly. Don't like Summoner pet micros and DoTs? Just only ever use Tri-disaster, don't bother with manual DoTs and use Garuda for everything and let it auto-use abilities. The pressure certainly isn't coming from the game. I honestly think it comes from two sources: one from elitists who scold people for not playing optimally. But just ignore them, they'll scold you for not standing behind the Reaper so that the buffs cascade to the Reaper first before you these days which probably makes like a 1 rDPS difference, so who cares? The other from people wanting to hit top damage but not wanting to put in the effort. I mean, I don't know why we want to cater to the latter type in any way.

The solution that SE implemented though, is to homogenize and simplify everything. An actual competent solution would be to minimize the damage gap so that people who don't want to engage with the extra optimization would be at most 5% DPS behind or something, as long as they're rolling their GCDs. That's basically what EW BLM was in 6.0/6.1 (not sure about now). There was the meme Paradox rotation that was less than 5% dps behind the standard rotation. People who want to play BLM casually should literally just use that instead of complaining about transpose lines and whatnot.

I know the real casual players certainly don't complain about stuff like TK+Riddle of Wind or positionals or tank/damage stance. At least I've never encountered any. They probably don't even know it exists. So why are these removed? I can only conclude that it's to appease the wannabe raiders who want to be part of the """elite""" without putting in the work. Majority of people on JP actually does Savage, but are not quite at the top level. It's probably these guys that are the real culprit than WoWfugees or casuals or elitists honestly (I know, I know about that other shitpost). SE doesn't listen to NA. These same JP players were on perma-WHM brain rot in SB so much that SE overbuffed AST, and WHM was basically never really a hard class. In retrospect we should've all seen it coming, when JP just can't get rid of its WHM addiction year after year; of course the developers will just turn everything into a WHM.