A summary of healer issues

[Quintessa]

Like many of the other jobs, they took too many tools away from the healers.

Yoshida may want to consider bringing some skills back just to test the waters again. We have different players now compared to HW/SB.

[Renathras]

I should note, for the record, I disagree a good deal of the post quoted.

What I'm trying to see is what a more general audience thinks of it. The place it was posted is a bit of an echo chamber and I'm curious what people not part of that echo chamber feel related to it.

EDIT: I should say, there are points I agree with, but may not agree with the proposed solution, etc. I feel like the problem really is a complicated one, and doesn't likely have a straightforward answer. Right now, I'm mostly leaning towards the solution being (1) to lean into the fact we have four Healer Jobs and they could/should all play differently (like in ARR, SCH could stay in Cleric a lot because Lustrate and Eos heals ignored it, while WHM spent much more time not in Cleric casting GCD heals); at any rate there's no reason for every Healer to have basically the same damage rotation of DoT + nukespam + some CD damage ability used to infrequently break that up, this does mean that some of them (like SCH) could have more a complex DPS rotation while others (like WHM) do not and continue to appeal to those who like the current system, and this allows things like a pure healer WHM, a buff focused healer AST, a damage focused healer SCH, and whatever SGE would be (thinking GNB for healers - a healer with a DPS rotation?), (2) that oGCD healing power should be greatly reduced, Tank/DPS oGCD healing should be removed (their healing should be a GCD and a trade-off vs damage, not essentially free healing they can throw out left and right - Clemency is good, Nascent is significantly less good, for the game; Curing Waltz is stupidly OP) and for Healers, their oGCDs should be a few powerful abilities with long CDs used for emergencies or planned situations (Benediction-like) or should be modifiers to enhance their GCD kit (Divine Seal, Presence of Mind, stuff like that), (3) encounter design needs to have less "massive spike of damage needing tons of healing...and now 45 seconds of basically nothing provided everyone's avoiding the damage that will one-shot them if they get clipped by it anyway"; instead, the damage should come in more gradually over time to be addressed with things like GCD heals or Regens/HoTs and less a "kitchen sink" situation where you throw out a bunch of oGCD heals for massive healing to deal with it then get back to the Glarespam as soon as the spike is over, knowing you won't need to hit any other button for the next 45 seconds besides your DoT refresh one time. And probably get rid of the 2 min meta - though that's a problem that goes WAY beyond just Healers.

I think it's a complex problem that needs a holistic solution. I'm not even sure that's the entirety of my ideal solution, but it at least is pointing in what I feel is the right direction.

But as for the OP quoted, yeah, I want to see what a more general, less (hopefully?) echochambery audience would think of it.

.

modern FF14 healer

tank main, no healer clears in any high-end content.

Ahem, not to put too fine a point on it but...have you looked at your profile lately on Lodestone? It seems unsearchable on the forbidden site, but I don't see Savage clear mounts or Extreme mounts under that Mount tab. Easy to cast stones when you make it where others can't verify how you stack up to your own standard... <_<

[Tint]

White Mage, Sage and Warrior are tied for the most popular jobs in all of FFXIV right now (although Dark Knight takes Warrior's place in raids specifically).

In high-end content, White Mage is the most popular job in all of FFXIV, more than tanks and DPS, it has been for a long time and it's not even close. So this just isn't true!

Please keep in mind that content requires a specific set of roles. Of course there is no healer shortage in the clear numbers. While it can be done sometimes even without a healer, basically all people will stick to the standard roles.

More interesting would be overall clear numbers compared to active player numbers in different expansions. But that would be useless as well because there plays more into it than just that someone has to draw the short stick and play healer. The raid scene fell apart in HW for example.

I should note, for the record, I disagree a good deal of the post quoted.

What I'm trying to see is what a more general audience thinks of it. The place it was posted is a bit of an echo chamber and I'm curious what people not part of that echo chamber feel related to it.

I think healers are boring.

Spamming Glare is not fun and bosses don't do enough damage and tanks are so tanky and have so much selfheal that I barely need to heal them. But honestly after I have played BLU healer I realised: I don't actually want a healer with a complex dps rotation. I want an illusion of complexity. Maybe a second DoT like we had in ARR and HW would already be enough.

And take away the selfheals from other roles or increase the damage output of bosses accordingly.

There is no need anymore to keep the damage low so that even the worst healer imaginable can clear the content when every DD and tank has mitigation tools and heals available.

[Smollett]

What I'm trying to see is what a more general audience thinks of it. The place it was posted is a bit of an echo chamber and I'm curious what people not part of that echo chamber feel related to it.

I started as healer in FF14 because I loved to heal in other mmos. So here I am - a fresh CNJ.

Now in Endwalker after leveling all jobs I can say... I don't want to heal anymore. It's boring as hell, and it's not even the main point. Healers outdated as a role, we aren't needed in almost any group content. In 4-man duty we just exist. Normal and alliance raids allow some healing, but lets be honest - any SMN or DNC or WAR or PLD can fill this niche. My key "1" is almost broken. And no, savage and ultimate shouldn't be the only engaging content for healers.

It's all my opinion. You have all rights to disagree. But that's how I feel.

[IDontPetLalas]

I should note, for the record, I disagree a good deal of the post quoted.

What I'm trying to see is what a more general audience thinks of it. The place it was posted is a bit of an echo chamber and I'm curious what people not part of that echo chamber feel related to it.

*snip*
I think it's a complex problem that needs a holistic solution. I'm not even sure that's the entirety of my ideal solution, but it at least is pointing in what I feel is the right direction.

But as for the OP quoted, yeah, I want to see what a more general, less (hopefully?) echochambery audience would think of it.

.



Ahem, not to put too fine a point on it but...have you looked at your profile lately on Lodestone? It seems unsearchable on the forbidden site, but I don't see Savage clear mounts or Extreme mounts under that Mount tab. Easy to cast stones when you make it where others can't verify how you stack up to your own standard... <_<

Translation- I posted this in the job forum and got feedback in many cases wasn't what I wanted to hear. So I am bringing this to the general aka "anything goes' forum . Let's get feedback from botanists now, why not - forget the healers.

[Striker44]

What I'm trying to see is what a more general audience thinks of it. The place it was posted is a bit of an echo chamber and I'm curious what people not part of that echo chamber feel related to it.

Despite being called "General Discussion," this place still isn't anywhere remotely near a "general audience" of FFXIV players. If you want that, you'd probably be best served just talking to people in-game. This place is just a couple dozen utterly bitter naysayers creating a negative echo chamber because they can't let go and also can't stand that hundreds of thousands of other people are having fun playing the game.

[BaconBits]

Despite being called "General Discussion," this place still isn't anywhere remotely near a "general audience" of FFXIV players. If you want that, you'd probably be best served just talking to people in-game. This place is just a couple dozen utterly bitter naysayers creating a negative echo chamber because they can't let go and also can't stand that hundreds of thousands of other people are having fun playing the game.

[Nizzi]

Despite being called "General Discussion," this place still isn't anywhere remotely near a "general audience" of FFXIV players. If you want that, you'd probably be best served just talking to people in-game. This place is just a couple dozen utterly bitter naysayers creating a negative echo chamber because they can't let go and also can't stand that hundreds of thousands of other people are having fun playing the game.

you're like in your 40s and you spend your free time constantly making these posts, that's crazy lil bro

[Renathras]

I would like it if they added tanks and healers back to the game lol

But seriously, take away all the healing ogcd’s and replace them with dps ogcd’s, then balance the game around healers casting for every heal

That's actually an interesting idea. So where all attacks are (in terms of rotation) like Energy Drain/Assize? oGCDs?

...

Don't mind Semi, she's quite possibly the worst offender about attacking people in there and even when caught lying about accusations, with direct quotes, refuses to recant.

"Renathras decided to cross-post this into General Discussion...to see if the Healer subforum is at all an accurate representation of the general forum population, much less the game's overall population."

There, fixed that for ya, Semi.

Funny you say I'm "bellyaching" about the Healer Subforum when other people here are saying the same thing, and have echoed what I told you before about you guys driving off anyone who dissents. Your post here is further evidence of that, btw. "hunting and cherrypicking" to show you actual data? You're being Exhibit 1 proving the claims you're saying aren't true are true.

.

Anyway, this post wasn't about the Healer subforum being toxic. I was just piggybacking off of someone else saying that. Someone I honestly wouldn't be surprised if you were the person who ran them out of it. This post was to see if the OP post that you claim should command the discussion on the topic actually holds water with people not part of your echo chamber.

So far, it has not.

So healers in Tera are what Bards used to be in XIV.
A real party support.

Pity that was too hard for people and it got dumbed down to its current state.

Was that why?

I always thought it had more to do with being hard to balance. Though they removed BRD buffs the same time they added DNC buffs. WHICH NEVER MADE SENSE TO ME. ShB DNC announcement was basically "We don't think a Job that buffs other party members works well with the game. So we're removing BRD's party buffs. Also, we're adding this new Job, DNC. And its main thing is that it buffs the party." Like...in what world does that make sense? o.O

Despite being called "General Discussion," this place still isn't anywhere remotely near a "general audience" of FFXIV players. If you want that, you'd probably be best served just talking to people in-game. This place is just a couple dozen utterly bitter naysayers creating a negative echo chamber because they can't let go and also can't stand that hundreds of thousands of other people are having fun playing the game.

Fair enough. But seriously, go to the Healer subforum. Read some of the threads. The one about removing Rescue (because OP and several other posters in there AREN'T Healer Subforum regulars) is a good showing of how people with divergent positions are "greeted" by the echochamber.

I dont agree to "auto-unite" Cure 1 into Cure 2, since Cure 1 has 0.5 seconds lower cast, and this way it has lower cast time -> lower application time and u can cast it almost on move, it means alot when u play low level content (level 1-60) or playing as conjurer (who does not have instacasts besides swiftcast)

Agree with this.

I also have noted that merging Solace/Rapture with Cure 2/Medica makes no sense considering sometimes you want to save the Lily for an upcoming movement and don't want to be forced to burn it early. While chain casting Dia while moving IS technically a DPS gain (depending on if you're overwriting a buffed snapshot Dia or not, I guess...), it's not much of one and isn't Ruin 2. It's still a movement tool for WHM, but a lesser option than using a Lily.

I wouldn't mind if a Trait upgraded Cure 1 to Cure 2 IF AND ONLY IF Cure 2 maintained Cure 1's cast time (1.5 sec) and MP cost (400). Though I wouldn't mind THAT since WHM should be the one that has the big and MP efficient heals, not AST.

[Jojoya]

I should note, for the record, I disagree a good deal of the post quoted.

What I'm trying to see is what a more general audience thinks of it. The place it was posted is a bit of an echo chamber and I'm curious what people not part of that echo chamber feel related to it.

The more general audience is too busy playing the game to take the time to read all that.

Healer is always going to be a hard role to design because what a healer will be doing is dependent on the skill level of the entire party (including the healer).

Are you a good (or better) healer in a good (or better) party? Expect to spend most of your time dealing damage because your party is not taking avoidable damage.

Are you a bad healer in a bad party? Expect to spend all your time healing and praying you don't run out of mana because they're taking so much damage and you have a hard time deciding where to prioritize your healing so you're probably just spamming your AoE heals.

Are you and your party somewhere in between? Hard to say what might happen.

Damage dealing in this game (at least for the other roles) is generally based on combo priorities. You build through a combo (or set of combos), unleash a finisher then start over. Fail to execute the combo correctly and your potency is significantly reduced.

YoshiP has said in the past that they don't want healers to be placed in the position of having to choose between keeping up a damage combo for the damage output or healing a party member. They want the core function of the role - healing - to be the priority at all times. Thus damage dealing in the healing role is simplified. We can interrupt damage to heal then immediately go back to damage without a loss of damage potency.

That means the good healers in the good parties are likely to end up bored because most of their time is spent using the simplified damage abilities. That's unavoidable in Normal content, which has to be designed with less skilled players in mind.

What about design for Savage and Ultimate? That's a question best left to those participating in Savage and Ultimate, not the general player base.

I can't raid at that level anymore myself but I would say to SE you don't need to make things easy on healers in Savage. Challenge their healing abilities instead of their ability to weave the occasional oGCD heal in between damage spam. If they were busy healing, they wouldn't be worried about having only 3-4 buttons for DPS.