The CODDLING of modern ShB/EW newbies has led to insane player skill stratification

[hunkygladiator]

DSR/TOP were some of the hardest Ultimate fights yet, and to the median Ultimate raider was probably harder than on-patch UCoB.

And yet... We have the modern casual FF14 player, who freaks out when being asked to pull wall to wall. Who panics when being asked to tank a single add in Titania. Who cries that the Dead Ends is too hard and is "Savage" (yes, this really happened: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/452783).

The modern casual FF14 player also never listens to feedback. They cannot handle a single criticism and would rather AFK in Limsa. The worse ones not only idles in Limsa but also trauma dumps their life story on Limsa and complains about their IRL panic attacks.

What happened? How is the gulf between the best and the masses so wide now?

Because of coddling.

Developers have coddled the playerbase again and again. They've dumbed down all jobs.

Healers were the first; they lost optimizations like 2.5s cast slidecasting, the need to be in melee range for Miasma II, and Cleric Stance. Then tanks got gutted as aggro became free and they get overloaded with mitigations that in every fight below Ultimate they pretty much only need to press Sheltron. Their rotations are barely harder than healers and it's insane to think that DRK used to have a rotation just as hard as many DPS where they actually have to closely track mana ticks. And now the DPS's are getting gutted left and right. MCH is a 1-2-3-drill simulator; gone were the days of managing your ammo stacks. SMN is a cinematic ATE experience. The melees are dumbed down but fared better and still has some optimization left, but MNK can never relive the days of TK+Riddle of Wind. And the final nail in the coffin will probably come in 7.0 as they remove transpose from Lv100.

Then they started dumbing down the encounters too. Savage fights today give free uptime to everyone. In many cases the boss's hitbox is nearly half the size of the arena. Out mechanics are so generous that you can still hit the boss from max melee. Remember when melees actually had to work for max melee like in O8S during the Kefka heads and the Forsakens? But the worst isn't in Savage but in casual content. Somehow the latest Lv90 dungeons are still easier than pre-EW Lv50 Pharos Sirius. The EW alliance raid series manage to become even easier than Nier. You don't even see a single wipe during day 1. Whereas deep in 3.5, you could still regularly wipe on Mhach or Dun Scaith. Even now Ozma probably still gives more trouble to people than any single alliance raid boss from EW.

And the community started to add to the coddling too. Whereas telling someone to get good was commonplace in HW and SB, it's now a probable report and ban. Mediocrity is celebrated left and right. From people talking about the game, sometimes even arguing, we now have people trauma-dumping their mental health issues in Limsa. And whereas ERP used to be frowned upon and mocked, we now have a playerbase that seems to embrace and celebrate it.

But this isn't just a problem with the game. It's happening everywhere, and that's the saddest part. The newest generation of gamers grew up in a coddled society. They can't handle disagreements, and can't handle criticism. They are too sensitive and averse to challenge. They don't push themselves. Is it any wonder when games start changing themselves to satisfy this shift in personality?

That's why FF14 is so successful. Because it doesn't push people. It allows them to live in a sanitized bubble where they can wallow in their mental health issues online and never seek help. It allows players to stay mediocre and actually look down on players with more skill because that's the norm today. It allows players to partake in outrage culture by mass reporting anyone who was even mildly "toxic" - "toxic" as defined by these new gamers of course. Over the course of expansions, it seems like it has gotten, truly, more and more pathetic.

[Ranaku]

The bait is strong in this thread, maybe you should focus on leveling something else besides your crafters and gatherers? Why is it that forum trolls always have marketboard alts and bot chars?

[caffe_macchiato]

The bait is strong in this thread, maybe you should focus on leveling something else besides your crafters and gatherers? Why is it that forum trolls always have marketboard alts and bot chars?

So you'd disagree with the following?

That's why FF14 is so successful. Because it doesn't push people.

The successful troll operates by revealing what other people are really thinking, not himself. You think the casual and midcore content is challenging? Why not say so? Or, perhaps, you know that he's right and don't want to argue on merit? Because we know the facts are on his side. We know that millions of people started playing FFXIV since 2021 (many of them did not stay). We know that Yoshi-P demanded jobs become more simplified, because he said so. We know that boss hitboxes have gotten bigger to allow for max melee. And we know that "toxic positivity" has been discussed ad nauseam on here and elsewhere. He's not making any of this up.

So what's really going on here? Are you upset at the truth of what's happening to the game? Would you like to pretend otherwise? Why not do so and have everyone evaluate that, instead of mocking the OP? Perhaps people like you are exactly what he's referring to.

Given the OP has one maxed out combat job and the rest all gathering and crafting, he's more than likely just another gil farming sockpuppet who's trolling the forum on a throwaway account.

If a troll can make a better argument than a regular person, then does that reflect upon the troll's abilities or yours?

[TheMightyMollusk]

If a troll can make a better argument than a regular person, then does that reflect upon the troll's abilities or yours?

I haven't even bothered to make an argument in this thread. It's just bottom-barrel baiting and you're falling for it as hard as anyone. I'm just having a laugh at it all.

[Renalt]

I haven't even bothered to make an argument in this thread. It's just bottom-barrel baiting and you're falling for it as hard as anyone. I'm just having a laugh at it all.

"Words were another sword for the man who wielded them well"

Not a man but I know you well enough that if it came to words...you would be spitting out straight up planet busting nukes.

[EstelleCere]

I don't think that people are coddled, but I do see your points. I do agree that it feels like majority of the jobs have gotten dumbed down, but I also don't feel like everything content wise should be really difficult constantly. Things change just like in any other MMO game. In my opinion, I still feel like savages are difficult (I'm not huge into the savage scene and do it once in a while so I'm also not exactly too up on this stuff either.) I wasn't around in the game when Heavensward had just came out or Stormblood, so I can't really voice my opinion based on the times in those expansions.

I feel like there is points in the game that are good for more hardcore players and casual ones, and I also don't think everyone needs to be "pushed" exactly. I think it's fine for them to play how they want. There are areas in the game catered towards "savage" players or casual ones, so I think if someone wants to push themselves then they can try the harder content. I still think that the current dungeons at the moment are more difficult than some of the older ones, but that also might just be me considering I don't do them that often lol. I do agree with the job dumbing down stuff being iffy though, some classes don't really feel fun to play anymore since they just have a few buttons to press basically. And on the tanks freaking out on certain things, I feel like that might just be more tank anxiety than having to do with being pushed.

Also I'm not too sure about the Limsa trauma dumping stuff, because in my experience in the game I haven't really seen that. I just see random stuff people say at times lol.

[Turnintino]

You are participating in "outrage culture". Congratulations. Enjoy your replies.

[hunkygladiator]

I don't think that people are coddled, but I do see your points. I do agree that it feels like majority of the jobs have gotten dumbed down, but I also don't feel like everything content wise should be really difficult constantly. Things change just like in any other MMO game. In my opinion, I still feel like savages are difficult (I'm not huge into the savage scene and do it once in a while so I'm also not exactly too up on this stuff either.) I wasn't around in the game when Heavensward had just came out or Stormblood, so I can't really voice my opinion based on the times in those expansions.

I feel like there is points in the game that are good for more hardcore players and casual ones, and I also don't think everyone needs to be "pushed" exactly. I think it's fine for them to play how they want. There are areas in the game catered towards "savage" players or casual ones, so I think if someone wants to push themselves then they can try the harder content. I still think that the current dungeons at the moment are more difficult than some of the older ones, but that also might just be me considering I don't do them that often lol. I do agree with the job dumbing down stuff being iffy though, some classes don't really feel fun to play anymore since they just have a few buttons to press basically. And on the tanks freaking out on certain things, I feel like that might just be more tank anxiety than having to do with being pushed.

Also I'm not too sure about the Limsa trauma dumping stuff, because in my experience in the game I haven't really seen that. I just see random stuff people say at times lol.

Things don't need to be unclearable, but an occasional vote abandon and wipe even in casual content helps players get better and appreciate the times when it actually is a smooth experience. We had that in HW and SB and the game grew just fine then.

Having absolutely zero stakes to casual content makes for an incredibly dull experience.

[EstelleCere]

Things don't need to be unclearable, but an occasional vote abandon and wipe even in casual content helps players get better and appreciate the times when it actually is a smooth experience. We had that in HW and SB and the game grew just fine then.

Having absolutely zero stakes to casual content makes for an incredibly dull experience.

Don't we already have content that people wipe in? Even during roulettes people still wipe in those, or on the current level 90 casual content.

[Turnintino]

Don't we already have content that people wipe in? Even during roulettes people still wipe in those, or on the current level 90 casual content.

This tho. When Aglaia was newer, I'd seen my alliance wipe because not everyone fully understood the balance mechanic during the Nald'thal fight, and I see similar things happen in some of the other less frequented raids (both normal and alliance). But funnily enough, I personally experience the most wipes doing ARR content with new tanks/healers.

So... ultimately, this is anecdotal, and any struggle I witness is usually down to inexperience or just, like, "wow, it's been a while since I've done this one," but it still amounts to the same thing. The challenge is still there, just not for players who frequently run the content in question, and especially when said content is less formulaic than the usual fare.