So why are the crafter relics.. bad.

[DiaDeem]

My only dispute with respect to this was that if people wish for a tool that is measurably better than Indagator gear then more effort should be required to obtain such

If it's anything like the Skybuilder Tools, the final step will require a Master Recipe. That's why I never finished my Needle, because I just didn't have the gear/skill for it. Even then, someone had to make me a custom macro to finish the Level 500 tool. I think I was on Blue Gear at the time?... Which I think we'll still get a set of in EW, though only Left side (no accesories), and won't be as good as a Penta'd Indagator set.

Point in case: These are gonna get harder and harder to make.

[Kaurhz]

If it's anything like the Skybuilder Tools, the final step will require a Master Recipe. That's why I never finished my Needle, because I just didn't have the gear/skill for it. Even then, someone had to make me a custom macro to finish the Level 500 tool. I think I was on Blue Gear at the time?... Which I think we'll still get a set of in EW, though only Left side (no accesories), and won't be as good as a Penta'd Indagator set.

Point in case: These are gonna get harder and harder to make.

Yeah, that is usually the case, the relics were designed in a way that would allow you to craft them with relatively low entry point stats, with the aim of eventually progressing towards an i510 relic which was released with 5.45, so we're likely to see the conclusion with the Crystalline tools occur with 6.45, which will allow them to also release the next set of blessed/resplendent tools with 6.55. I would expect the subsequent stages to use expert recipes in some form or fashion.

That much is granted, and this is a system I agree with. Progressive wherein you eventually get a tool 'exceeding', as opposed to just outright exceeding upon the first stage. with an equal difficulty progression system to accommodate.

You once again fail horribly at making any actual sense in your arguments. Time and time again, people have pointed out the point of relics as a means for catch up progression for the general audience, which is the entire point. It's the same thing with how weapon relics are handled, except in this case probably a lot more useful considering weapon upgrades are dropped within every patch while crafter/gatherer upgrades get dropped every other patch. With Indigator being the last set we get till 7.0 and guess how many patches we have left before then? You also fail to realize we'll be getting more recipes later with bigger demands in craft and quality demands. By next patch, Indigator tools will be worthless since the relics will exceed its stats and have better bonuses.

Seriously cant wait to see you make a fool of yourself again by 6.4 when you'll obviously make another thread like this still trying to defend this point.

I have never disputed that they aren't, my only dispute, again, is that tools exceeding Indagator need more of a progression behind them before they are better either through subsequent steps, e.g., a progressive system, something which I have iterated several times to be the case. I have never said that the tools aren't viewed as catch-up nor progression for the general audience just that the difficulty of them would not match what should be expected of something to exceed pentamelded gear.

If multiple sentences are difficult for you, which they seem to be... - I think the relic system is fine as is, however, I think it is too early and the requirements don't necessarily appropriately match the reward, currently to provide tools that exceed the current crafted with pentamelds.

FYI you're incorrect regarding Indagator being the final set we get between now and 7.0, .4 patches have always included a scrip counterpart which has historically been the catch-up gear, and the gear that also branches people between expansions on a budget. This gear will also most likely be 630.

I personally can't wait to see what a fool of yourself when you come to the realization that:
1 - I and the person who started this thread are not the same people, and I disagreed with their underlying point.
2 - You seem to be replying to me, yet don't actually read the posts, presume some nonsense that isn't even stated nor eluded to, and then proceed to double down on it without reading, whilst subsequently trying to be condescending.

But here's a throwback for you - I don't actually expect you to come to the realization of Point #2. Primarily because you don't actually seem to be interested in reading or trying to dissect the point. Don't worry though, you won't see me I can assure you, mainly because you've drastically misunderstood my posts and come to several incorrect conclusions regarding my posts.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Yeah, that is usually the case, the relics were designed in a way that would allow you to craft them with relatively low entry point stats, with the aim of eventually progressing towards an i510 relic which was released with 5.45, so we're likely to see the conclusion with the Crystalline tools occur with 6.45, which will allow them to also release the next set of blessed/resplendent tools with 6.55. I would expect the subsequent stages to use expert recipes in some form or fashion.

That much is granted, and this is a system I agree with. Progressive wherein you eventually get a tool 'exceeding', as opposed to just outright exceeding upon the first stage. with an equal difficulty progression system to accommodate.




I have never disputed that they aren't, my only dispute, again, is that tools exceeding Indagator need more of a progression behind them before they are better either through subsequent steps, e.g., a progressive system, something which I have iterated several times to be the case. I have never said that the tools aren't viewed as catch-up nor progression for the general audience just that the difficulty of them would not match what should be expected of something to exceed pentamelded gear.

If multiple sentences are difficult for you, which they seem to be... - I think the relic system is fine as is, however, I think it is too early and the requirements don't necessarily appropriately match the reward, currently to provide tools that exceed the current crafted with pentamelds.

FYI you're incorrect regarding Indagator being the final set we get between now and 7.0, .4 patches have always included a scrip counterpart which has historically been the catch-up gear, and the gear that also branches people between expansions on a budget. This gear will also most likely be 630.

I personally can't wait to see what a fool of yourself when you come to the realization that:
1 - I and the person who started this thread are not the same people, and I disagreed with their underlying point.
2 - You seem to be replying to me, yet don't actually read the posts, presume some nonsense that isn't even stated nor eluded to, and then proceed to double down on it without reading, whilst subsequently trying to be condescending.

But here's a throwback for you - I don't actually expect you to come to the realization of Point #2. Primarily because you don't actually seem to be interested in reading or trying to dissect the point. Don't worry though, you won't see me I can assure you, mainly because you've drastically misunderstood my posts and come to several incorrect conclusions regarding my posts.

What you're arguing is what already is going to be provided in the next patches. We are just starting the crafter relics. So I seriously dont know what the hell is your problem.

[Kaurhz]

What you're arguing is what already is going to be provided in the next patches. We are just starting the crafter relics. So I seriously dont know what the hell is your problem.

No, I was simply arguing that there is no necessary reason to currently, on this patch, at this point in time for the relic weapons to be more powerful than they already are (and specified reasons for this, being that relic is intended to be progressive, and has more steps before it is 'equally or more powerful' than a pentamelded counterpart, and if people think otherwise then the progression system should appropriately reflect this). As per my original post below.

To be clear, I assume that you're somehow going to read into this more than intended, so... The relic weapons at their current point are fine, what they offer is very appropriate. It is just not appropriate for them to be 'more powerful' than they already are at this current point in time. I argued this because those replying, and the OP seem to think they should be more powerful when it is a progressive system.

There was no win-win with this. On one hand they lul behind until the expansion is near concluded, alternatively they can put the relic ahead of crafted tools immediately, and in doing so you render the crafted tools irrelevant.

Simply put, the relic is progressive and is still a WIP, so they will end up being better, or on-par with pentamelded main-hand tool by the end of the expansion.

I then also subsequently argued the point that such small stat gains from, say, 620 to 625 don't really always result in a measurable change, e.g., doesn't change your rotation or consumables. If you have the Craftsmanship to synth, and additional craftsmanship doesn't change that then it is just burned stats. The same applies to control, if your loss or gain of control doesn't change the rotations you're using then it's just unnecessary.

To put this in the most basic view possible. - If I were to progress to and commit to melding my tools, and if I were to swap to those as opposed to using the Crystalline Tools then every single rotation I have would not change, nor would consumable usage change.

[Oldschoolegamer38]

No, I was simply arguing that there is no necessary reason to currently, on this patch, at this point in time for the relic weapons to be more powerful than they already are (and specified reasons for this, being that relic is intended to be progressive, and has more steps before it is 'equally or more powerful' than a pentamelded counterpart, and if people think otherwise then the progression system should appropriately reflect this). As per my original post below.

To be clear, I assume that you're somehow going to read into this more than intended, so... The relic weapons at their current point are fine, what they offer is very appropriate. It is just not appropriate for them to be 'more powerful' than they already are at this current point in time. I argued this because those replying, and the OP seem to think they should be more powerful when it is a progressive system.



I then also subsequently argued the point that such small stat gains from, say, 620 to 625 don't really always result in a measurable change, e.g., doesn't change your rotation or consumables. If you have the Craftsmanship to synth, and additional craftsmanship doesn't change that then it is just burned stats. The same applies to control, if your loss or gain of control doesn't change the rotations you're using then it's just unnecessary.

To put this in the most basic view possible. - If I were to progress to and commit to melding my tools, and if I were to swap to those as opposed to using the Crystalline Tools then every single rotation I have would not change, nor would consumable usage change.

What I am seeing is that the devs wanted to give folks different choices in how they go about crafting. but I think this is just the start...why should this game have absolutes why can't there be more options I used both crafted and crystalline tools and they both have there advantages and disadvantages. Correct me If I am wrong but has there ever been a passive bonus ever in this game outside of just having stats on an item? To my knowledge no. This is refreshing to see more options given to players I do not want to have just one set for everything, I would like to see more sets available to craft specifically for crafting stats. so seeing this is a good place to start.

Edit: GC gear gives a passive bonus so I am mistaken. but that should be given more for relic gear sets for crafting.

[TaleraRistain]

If it's anything like the Skybuilder Tools, the final step will require a Master Recipe. That's why I never finished my Needle, because I just didn't have the gear/skill for it. Even then, someone had to make me a custom macro to finish the Level 500 tool. I think I was on Blue Gear at the time?... Which I think we'll still get a set of in EW, though only Left side (no accesories), and won't be as good as a Penta'd Indagator set.

Point in case: These are gonna get harder and harder to make.

Another good point. And since we're required to use these to craft the items, they may be baking in an effect that helps with that.

We also don't know what potential changes might happen with crafting in the future. Could they perhaps make this effect more beneficial in normal recipes in the next expansion? I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility. So we may find ourselves very glad we put in the time to get them. And if not, they're still going to be nice glams. And it's nice that the Splendorous Tools weren't a one-off and crafting and gathering are getting these relic quests with stories instead of the system in ARR.