So why are the crafter relics.. bad.

[Iyrnthota]

There are tools that use learning AI to generate functional macros based on your stats, so it's not necessary for them to rely on people to make the macros, but I guess they are still relying on the independant developers who make and upkeep those tools...

That sounds boring to me honestly. Half the fun of crafting for me is trying to come up with workable macros based on my non-optmised gear.

[VeyaAkemi]

That sounds boring to me honestly. Half the fun of crafting for me is trying to come up with workable macros based on my non-optmised gear.

A lot of people don't think crafting is remotely "fun", it's a means to an end, something you do to get something specific done so you can use that something, so they take the easy and optimized way out, so they can get value out of crafting while minimizing their engagement with it, it's hardly difficult to understand why.

[Gemina]

A lot of people don't think crafting is remotely "fun", it's a means to an end, something you do to get something specific done so you can use that something, so they take the easy and optimized way out, so they can get value out of crafting while minimizing their engagement with it, it's hardly difficult to understand why.

It is difficult to comprehend when players say something isn't fun or engaging when they rip it out themselves. Same can be said with combat and players just look up rotations instead of trying to come up with them on their own using the tools given to them in the game. It is the pinnacle example of why instant gratification fails to provide a long term benefit.

I would love for any macro crafter to explain to me what they find fun and engaging about crafting. Especially if they didn't come up with the macro themselves.

[VeyaAkemi]

These functional macros generated by AI are still subpar and inefficient when compared to people that actually know how to make a macro.

Yes but that also means you don't need to meet certain specific stat thresholds to use them since they are always tailored to your own stats, making them far more practical for some, if the cost of "inefficiency" is only time, it is a very valid alternative.

It is difficult to comprehend when players say something isn't fun or engaging when they rip it out themselves.

You are looking at it from the wrong angle, you are assuming that they never tried manually crafting and immediately started using macros, thus they find in boring, when in reality it's the case that they tried crafting and found it boring, but still needed it, thus they resorted to minimizing their engagement with the system by means of partial automation, while still reaping full benefits.

As for what they "find fun and engaging", that's the point, they don't, that's why they use macros, it's purely a means to an end.

[Gemina]

You are looking at it from the wrong angle, you are assuming that they never tried manually crafting and immediately started using macros, thus they find in boring, when in reality it's the case that they tried crafting and found it boring, but still needed it, thus they resorted to minimizing their engagement with the system by means of partial automation, while still reaping full benefits.

As for what they "find fun and engaging", that's the point, they don't, that's why they use macros, it's purely a means to an end.

And it would be a safe assumption to make. Especially in the terms of it being a means to an end. In which case the question shifts from what is fun about crafting, to what's the end goal? There's no reward for crossing the finish line with crafting, so if you can't find value with the journey then what exactly is the reason you're doing it at all? What's the means to this end you speak of? Enlighten me.

[VeyaAkemi]

And it would be a safe assumption to make. Especially in the terms of it being a means to an end. In which case the question shifts from what is fun about crafting, to what's the end goal? There's no reward for crossing the finish line with crafting, so if you can't find value with the journey then what exactly is the reason you're doing it at all? What's the means to this end you speak of? Enlighten me.

High tier food for raids, tinctures for raids, crafted gear for raids so they can get started on the tier because you do need that until you get the BiS drops from the raids themselves, glams that can only be obtained by crafting, selling all the previous and thus make money for the things they can't craft and are otherwise unwilling to farm like haircuts/minions/mounts from Deep Dungeon or Bozja... hell, some people like to just make money, because numbuh go up equals dopamine

No seriously, this is quite obvious, the goal is the crafted product, and then do something with said crafted product, all I cited are immediate goals for those crafted products, it's quite simple.

[Gemina]

High tier food for raids, tinctures for raids, crafted gear for raids so they can get started on the tier because you do need that until you get the BiS drops from the raids themselves, glams that can only be obtained by crafting, selling all the previous and thus make money for the things they can't craft and are otherwise unwilling to farm like haircuts/minions/mounts from Deep Dungeon or Bozja... hell, some people like to just make money, because numbuh go up equals dopamine

No seriously, this is quite obvious, the goal is the crafted product, and then do something with said crafted product, all I cited are immediate goals for those crafted products, it's quite simple.

I still fail to understand. All of what you said is obtainable through the MB. Even the MB itself can be used to make gil by buying low and selling high.

You've basically laid out the goal to crafting is more crafting. So if it is not fun, unfulfilled, and not engaging, then why are you doing it? Why put yourself through it if there are paths of lesser resistance?

[AmiableApkallu]

You are looking at it from the wrong angle, you are assuming that they never tried manually crafting and immediately started using macros, thus they find in boring, when in reality it's the case that they tried crafting and found it boring, but still needed it, thus they resorted to minimizing their engagement with the system by means of partial automation, while still reaping full benefits.

You don't even have to find crafting boring, per se.

At some point in my crafting career, I settled on my general strategies for low durability crafts and high durability crafts.

At some point later, I asked myself, "If I don't insist on minimizing steps all the time, I wonder if I can get away using <this> particular sequence of steps for a range of crafts?" The answer turned out to be, "Yes."

Thus, it became natural to put those steps into a macro. After all, why wouldn't I want to automate a repetitive task?