Are there any plans to fix the 'Haurchefant' localization?

[Atelier-Bagur]

I don't think it detracts from people's ability to take him seriously. He already does so much for the player at that point, so in my view, as a character, he has earned his right to be comedic.
I personally don't see what's wrong with it, since it's perfectly appropriate for the 'T' 13+ rating and no worse than anything else that seeks to appeal to this demographic. Jiraiya from Naruto is 'worse' in this regard.

And yes, I genuinely do think JP Haurchefant would be better because changing him also required them to change other aspects about his character, including interactions which drastically changed the mood of these scenes. I'd rather have him as a bombastic and humorous pervert than a what he is now, because it's very clear that in the JP version that's not all he is.
I personally found it creepy how he was re-written, it didn't feel right, it felt like he was trying to establish an emotional connection when the pieces for that simply were not there.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I know a lot of people (including a few JPN players) who didnt much care for JPN Haurchefant and actually would've been turned off from the character if they were trying to force some sort of romantic relationship with the WoL, which it was clearly doing. I still think the localization team had nothing to apologize for. Nobody cares except die hards who actually go out of their way to look up japanese translations.

In many cases with localizations I would agree that most of the time, the english script ruins the original depth of a character; one notable example is Kairi from Kingdom Hearts whom actually has more of a character than what was localized. But like I keep defending, ENG Haurchefant is one of the rare Ws where the character actually is better than the original version. He just seriously comes off as too pushy, creepy or annoyingly eccentric, and with many moments in both ARR and HW's story where he's there to be taken seriously, I cannot imagine many people would've connected with him if he was blatant about his affection towards you. Heck G'raha is getting dangerously close at times with his dialogue but I rather like my characters having room for interpretation rather than "HEY THIS GUY REEALLY WANTS TO GET IN YOUR PANTS, THIS IS HIS CHARACTER TRAIT".

[Telkira]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I know a lot of people (including a few JPN players) who didnt much care for JPN Haurchefant and actually would've been turned off from the character if they were trying to force some sort of romantic relationship with the WoL, which it was clearly doing. I still think the localization team had nothing to apologize for. Nobody cares except die hards who actually go out of their way to look up japanese translations.

I disagree.
Lots of players do play the game with JP cutscene audio, which, for the most part, lines up with what's being said in the textbox, which a lot of these players do prefer the original JP voice acting and not the EN. Something I genuinely can commend them for is keeping most of the script properly translated, if not taking liberties where they find appropriate (though I would personally prefer to have the closest thing to a direct translation, without the flavortext).

In many cases with localizations I would agree that most of the time, the english script ruins the original depth of a character; one notable example is Kairi from Kingdom Hearts whom actually has more of a character than what was localized. But like I keep defending, ENG Haurchefant is one of the rare Ws where the character actually is better than the original version. He just seriously comes off as too pushy, creepy or annoyingly eccentric, and with many moments in both ARR and HW's story where he's there to be taken seriously, I cannot imagine many people would've connected with him if he was blatant about his affection towards you. Heck G'raha is getting dangerously close at times with his dialogue but I rather like my characters having room for interpretation rather than "HEY THIS GUY REEALLY WANTS TO GET IN YOUR PANTS, THIS IS HIS CHARACTER TRAIT".

Again.. I don't think that's what solely defines the character. He's still the same character whose dialog and presence is conducive to the serious tone of the overall story, just is more outspoken and comedic and than the other one. I seriously don't understand why it really matters, it doesn't make him any less like-able, considering it IS a Japanese property. I think those aspects can very easily be overlooked or ignored. It doesn't make sense to be discomforted over a character in a video game, hence why I said what I said about SE making a mistake in pandering to Westerners.
They might as well remove Lalafell from the NA release and all the sexualization of them if their concerns are appeasement over entertainment. JP media is, and will always be inherently problematic, since the cultures weren't warped by Western notions of purity.

The best thing they did was keep Christian missionaries out of Japan, and this type of emotional incongruence and disparity is proof of that.

[rainichan]

My brother in christ, can any of you actually come up with some sort of criticism or rebuttal that isn't "no u" or an outright insult??

Because translations shouldn't be 1:1. Japanese jokes don't land in English locales because their version of jokes are a lot of wordplay, something they can do with the way their language is structured around A I U E O that we don't have here. As such, localizations work to have jokes that their locale will understand and laugh at, which would make no sense in any of the other locales that they're translating and localizing for. I wouldn't expect to get a joke in FR or DE that's been translated into English because that's not my first language, nor would I expect an EN joke to land right in FR/DE/JP because EN is not the target language or locale.

Seeing as how the localization team works hand in hand with the writers to make sure that their versions match the vision of what the writers want, there's no reason to have a 1:1 translation. Translation, as you were talking about here IS LOCALIZATION. That's the literal definition of localization from one language to another: keeping the tone, the ideal and understanding of the scene so it flows naturally in the language it is in. FFXIV and it's localization isn't something like ADV's Ghost Stories or even the old Samurai Pizza Cats; while the Haurchefant localization was a misstep that they apologized for, many in this thread have expressed their happiness with it, while you've constantly [URL="https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/480960-Are-there-any-plans-to-fix-the-Haurchefant-localization?p=6230957&viewfull=1#post6230957"]assumed[url] things about the posters who have expressed just that. You double down and, while your insults are not on par with people calling you a weeb (which... I guess, some people wear that badge with pride lmao), yours are instead calling people woke or telling them their discomfort is something they can "get over" or just "deal with", and "stop being so soft" and "toughen up" - up to and including telling people "good you SHOULD be uncomfortable with this" which is terrible. There have been plenty of people who have come in with reasonable debates, no namecalling, simply stating their stance, as you did in your OP and all rebuttals against what people have said, and only when you refuse to see why they feel differently and insult them, they only do so back. Perhaps some looking inward for reflection will help in this.

I've studied Japanese for many, many years, I generally play games in Japanese when given the chance, and I do in fact watch a lot of anime subbed (though dub quality is pretty dang great compared to the early 90s now) - but no, I don't want JP Haurchefant. I know what he was intended to be, it has nothing to do with "Western puritanical views", it has to do with "I've been ogled like this irl and it's incredibly uncomfortable." YOU may not understand it and chalk it up to "ha ha funny guy" but to many who have had that happen irl to them? Not as funny. I'm not being "soft" or "woke" about it either before you try to come at me with that, but digging in your heels and refusing outright to see why people might not be cool with this has nothing to do with either of those things either. It may be another country's culture to laugh at this, but it's a lot different in a totally different locale. I don't find the trope as funny either, but to me it's more childish than endearing, but maybe I'm just old now and can't be arsed to find it endearing. I may have when I was in my teenage years and possibly my early 20s, but those years are 15+ years behind me now.

Your insistence that it's people getting "upset" over things that don't matter is not helping your case either, because they may not matter TO YOU but they obviously matter to those that see a problem. You won't get people warming up to your stance if you constantly insult them either, despite crying that people are insulting you, for instance saying that they're all puritanical Westerners who don't understand the "finer nuances" of Japanese culture, and that the people who weren't exactly excited about how the JP version should "seek therapy" if they felt excessively creeped out by him:

I've seen people genuinely react with vigor at the way he was written in the JP version, like with utmost disgust like they were being assaulted.
To those people I suggest therapy.

Or, as I already mentioned about "toughening up", I'll just quote the whole thing so I'm not accused of cherry-picking:

I really don't see what there is to be so uncomfortable over. Yeah he's a 'creep' but it's a character in a video game and his original inception actually serves a valid purpose. His interactions are genuinely funny and the fact that people would rather see that revised because it would be inconvenient to 'toughen up' in favor of compromising the artistic and literary integrity of the product, thereby contributing to a culture of accommodating insecurity disguised as socio-cultural apologetics.

I genuinely think that the majority of players wouldn't feel so bothered by it, or they would overlook it along with all the other 'problematic' aspects of a Japanese product, and for those who are made uncomfortable by it, what's the harm? I think challenging their insecurities in the context of fiction is a good thing. It's how I learned to treat art as art and not as something that has to reflect real-life values. Fantasy is harmless.

And since my reply kind of goes over this as well, with bold emphasis mine:

Within the western anime community, there exists people with colonial mentalities who genuinely believe that such tropes, plots, characters, etc. constitute some degree of harm and base this harm on the discomfort they feel when exposed to it, but lack the self-awareness and introspection skills to recognize whether that discomfort constitutes 'harm'.

I don't see how being made to feel uncomfortable by Haurchefant's 'advances' should be taken any more seriously than someone disturbed by anything else in this game.

Fantasy may be harmless, yes; I certainly don't walk out my door expecting to become a Skyrim NPC and die in a dragon attack, but when the game deals with a lot of real-world parallels and politics, and a lot of real-world philosophy, it's harder to divorce fantasy from reality. Having someone being borderline sexually harassing is uncomfortable for people. If you're truly still struggling to understand why, especially some female players would not want this in a place that they do try to get away from some real world instances, this video is plenty. I can deal with politics, I can deal with war, and I can deal with nihilism and existentialism in my games because while yes, it makes for a more interesting world, but sometimes, there has to be a line where it stops and borderline sexual harassment is it.


For the record, I was here for Heavensturn 2014 and while I found the "will you be my steed?!" line funny, it was funny on it's own in a contained place with no other instances of it. If it had been more, I would not have liked the character as much as I do, as it was enough to tell me "yes, Haurchefant wants to be helpful to us... and maybe he might wanna bone us, but he doesn't let it bleed out... too much. Not enough to be annoying or uncomfortable." and that was good enough for me.

That type of argument isn't even rationally based, it's a Japanese game. You're consuming a Japanese game. If you seriously expect to have anything but that, then you're better off going elsewhere.
You shouldn't watch anime and get mad when they're all dining on noodles and naruto rolls and not hamburgers and jelly doughnuts, you shouldn't even expect that.

Just gonna say, 4kids hasn't been around for 7 years now, and no anime licensing company actually does this anymore. I would expect Japanese culture if the game were based in Japan itself, not a fantasy world that isn't anything like Japan itself. The closest we get is Doma and the surrounding areas, and even then it's a collision of Asian cultures, not just Japanese - the Azim Steppe with the Xaela is a pretty clear Mongolia vibe, Yanxia is Chinese, Doma and Kugane is Japan. I would expect the heaviest Japanese tropes to be around in these areas, but they still aren't. In a completely different fantasy world, where the creating studio is from is a moot point when the only thing that may come from some silly dialogue is "Pan? You didn't mean bread but a frying pan?" or some basic tropes in their media that don't exist elsewhere, and they are localized differently for their target audiences to understand and resonate with more.

The devs will not likely go back and change anything, the localization is done and dusted and has been for nearly a decade. The most you'll get is the apology from Mr. Crow and knowledge that any other changes they make to the localization are okay'd by the writers and Yoshida himself now, because despite it all, they're a business. They're here to make money from the largest amount of people, and that means making more people happy with how they run things. There will always be some grumblings about how some lines change a meaning somewhere in the MSQ (and some I do agree with because they aren't too obvious and make it a little more difficult to understand than it needs to be, especially in overly technical descriptions on how the world of Hydaelyn works, but I'm otherwise happy with the localization) but despite your claim that the outrage was massive, it really wasn't that massive. It isn't a silent majority, nor do you know how every single player out of the entirety of the NA playerbase feels about the localization - the forums aren't really a place to gauge it either. At most, it is a small subset of players.

You are entitled to your opinion and to believe it () but telling others their opinion isn't right or worth it because you think they're too wrapped up in a Westerner's mindset to understand Japanese culture, and to dig your heels in and deny everything that people say isn't it either.

Regardless, I've spent enough time reliving my teenage anime days in this thread since when I was a teen I probably would have been mad, but I grew out of that. Perhaps it's time for you to do some growing as well, to understand that not everyone's response to this is out of some need to inject "western puritanical bullcrap" into a video game, but that people would be legitimately uncomfortable for many reasons to a change like this.

[Iyrnthota]

The canon is the JP presentation, as explicitly stated in the apology post by the head of the LOC team at the time.

The problem with Western localization is that Westerners begin to feel entitled to revisionism of this type, so they begin to aggressively impose their views and values which are inadvertently (if not explicitly) at odds with the true vision, which is what we are entitled to.

I want Haurchefant to be corrected, I want the dialog text that plays during his cutscenes to be reflective of the Japanese being spoken, in addition to the rest of his dialog to be reflective of his actual speech and characterization.

Potentially hot take, it doesn't matter what the "canon" is in this particular case.

It's a bit of lore is primarily regarding something that that is already highly headcanon'd, i.e. the Warrior of Light, their personality, and their relationship to the Scions.

Also the guy is dead, and while the story team are clearly happy to bring his deadness up repeatedly, the specifics of your relationship are not discussed. Only that you were close or very affected by their death. It's otherwise left up to the player.

[Telkira]

Seeing as how the localization team works hand in hand with the writers to make sure that their versions match the vision of what the writers want, there's no reason to have a 1:1 translation. Translation, as you were talking about here IS LOCALIZATION. That's the literal definition of localization from one language to another: keeping the tone, the ideal and understanding of the scene so it flows naturally in the language it is in.

I'm sorry, but this is wrong. All localization implies is that the material was adapted in some way to make it marketable to a foreign market. What 4kids did was localization, textbook localization, both because many topics or concept seen as 'too mature' for children in the US were perfectly okay by Japanese standards, or because they felt that removals would make it feel more 'western', like replacing Japanese food items with non-JP food items, rewriting whole dialog exhanges to feel familiar, etc.
What Crunchyroll does when it rewrites whole plots and character dialog to appease easy-to-offend Twitter and Reddit users is 'Localization'. Swapping out snot bubbles for the letter 'Z' is localization. Changing or modifying the tone or manner in which a character speaks for the sake of cultural flavor is localization. Nowhere in the term 'localization' (used within this context) is any obligation to retain any form of artistic or literary integrity, quite exclusively the opposite, actually.

Translating to another language is not impossible like you're making things out to be, especially with media, and as stated before, this is compatible with the presence of phrases or words that do not translate well. The point is translating their words and ensuring that the contents of their expression is accurately conveyed. Some things literally will not translate well, even after they've been touched with localization due to inherent qualities of the product that can't be filtered out, things like the art style, the pacing at which the story is set, how characters react to things, etc. I'd rather see something as close to the original content and maybe actually learn something, that's perhaps the best defense you could offer direct translations of content. Learning about the content, its place in its respective culture, and how it relates to improving critical thought. It makes you question things about the medium and once you understand it and learn about how it fits in with them, you begin to realize that there's no reason why it wouldn't fit in that way with us, and that's okay.

I think Localization generally contributes to a growing sense of cultural illiteracy, whereby if something doesn't fit snuggly within what a society is presumptively willing to tolerate, it generally won't. I think we would be better off if these things weren't filtered out via localization, and were just translated.

[Telkira]

If you're truly still struggling to understand why, especially some female players would not want this in a place that they do try to get away from some real world instances, this video is plenty. I can deal with politics, I can deal with war, and I can deal with nihilism and existentialism in my games because while yes, it makes for a more interesting world, but sometimes, there has to be a line where it stops and borderline sexual harassment is it.

I don't think equating a form of harassment to a character in a video game is at all an appropriate comparison... I can understand the discomfort people feel about this, but I guarantee you that it's nowhere close to this. I don't doubt that cases exist, but changing the story to accommodate for them is something that.
And even then, taking Haurchefant's interactions and calling it 'harassment' is something I can't understand...
I don't think such standards need to be applied to fictional characters in such a way, with the same reverence we would apply to them in real-life. I'm perfectly capable of taking the threat of being murdered or assaulted seriously even after all of the media which depicts, if not glorifies, such things, same with media which or glorifies sexual things. Japanese users don't seem to take issue with it either, even rebelling at the thought of it having an effect on behavior. Why can't Westerners see it the same way? I don't think it needs to be regarded the same way as it does in real-life, context matters and the same couldn't be said about this.

My overall take is, if it were genuinely better for it to not exist, then it should be that way for the game as a whole, not only in specific regions. A book shouldn't have chapters removed just so it can be published in a different country. A game shouldn't have content be cut or revised for the same reason either.

[Atelier-Bagur]

I disagree.
Lots of players do play the game with JP cutscene audio, which, for the most part, lines up with what's being said in the textbox, which a lot of these players do prefer the original JP voice acting and not the EN. Something I genuinely can commend them for is keeping most of the script properly translated, if not taking liberties where they find appropriate (though I would personally prefer to have the closest thing to a direct translation, without the flavortext).



Again.. I don't think that's what solely defines the character. He's still the same character whose dialog and presence is conducive to the serious tone of the overall story, just is more outspoken and comedic and than the other one. I seriously don't understand why it really matters, it doesn't make him any less like-able, considering it IS a Japanese property. I think those aspects can very easily be overlooked or ignored. It doesn't make sense to be discomforted over a character in a video game, hence why I said what I said about SE making a mistake in pandering to Westerners.
They might as well remove Lalafell from the NA release and all the sexualization of them if their concerns are appeasement over entertainment. JP media is, and will always be inherently problematic, since the cultures weren't warped by Western notions of purity.

The best thing they did was keep Christian missionaries out of Japan, and this type of emotional incongruence and disparity is proof of that.

Dont understand where you somehow get my arguments as being "christian" if that is your take away but what you're defending is bad writing, for the sake of keeping a script "pure". Bottom line is JPN Haurchefaunt was poorly written or at the very least a character that feels too exaggerated for what his character ultimately was supposed to be; someone who personally cherishes you for who you are. Not somebody who speaks and acts like they only care about having an intimate sexual relationship with you.

And if at the very least we should keep that angle, there's much better ways to write somebody who's attracted to your character without being an outdated stereotype.

[Telkira]

I'm not being "soft" or "woke" about it either before you try to come at me with that

And for the record... no lol
Just no.

I don't need to insult people to prove my point, at least when it's not warranted (i.e. being insulted first).

I think your overall point about being sensitive over it feeling like harassment is probably the most valid response, but still falls short of the broader content being mere fiction, coupled with the intentions of the creators being made clear of being a joke, and I stand by my previous statements about people 'growing a spine'. I think going out of their way to accommodate that sensitivity and discomfort is the wrong approach to take if it's the 'true vision' of the product, because in later years or in other products, they're going to go with the characterization of the JP script because that's the true version. Even the LINE Messenger icons of Haurchefant are representative of his Japanese characterization.

Just gonna say, 4kids hasn't been around for 7 years now, and no anime licensing company actually does this anymore. I would expect Japanese culture if the game were based in Japan itself, not a fantasy world that isn't anything like Japan itself.

I named off 4Kids because they're a textbook case of localization that a lot of people seem to forget about, and yes, they have. We literally watched entire anime and manga be butchered by Crunchyroll. I remember Dragon Maid, I literally cancelled my CR sub because of all of their craziness.

As for the game 'being Japanese', it's about the title (if not franchise) as a whole being a product of Japanese writers and artists, shaped by the culture which they existed in, their liberal use of a variety of Western fantasy and mythological characters, tropes, etc. The game itself has made its Japanese character evident even beyond that, like the celebrating of Japanese holidays, and partnering with Japanese properties to do cross-over events with, etc.

With Western references and jokes, I..genuinely don't like it. I begrudgingly tolerate it because it's a joke in the JP version as well, and I assume that that's fine, though I'd prefer to just see the JP version. I personally just think the 'Channel Awesome' approach of constantly inserting jokes or references to things that exist in the broader culture is a lame approach, because you can't always guarantee that it'll amuse more than it annoys, but it also kills opportunity for something actually intriguing or conducive to immersed engagement, which it probably won't be because most references aren't written with that dual-purpose in mind for the sake of those who don't get it or pick up on that it's a reference.
That point stands even with respect to JP-centric jokes or references, but I'd still like to see those translated over.

[rainichan]

Just fyi, if you write up a big post, copy most of it and then edit, you can bypass the 3k word limit.

I'm sorry, but this is wrong. ...

Japanese localization from EN to JP is the exact same process: take the source, make it marketable to the JP market. Cultural sensitivity exists in all markets, not just the EN market. Most localizations also employ transliterations, which is "make something we can't translate over well enough into something as close as possible to stay accurate." As I said, some of what they do in the EN version I would like them to not do, in overly technical explanations for something that is easier to understand in other languages because they feel the need to stay with ye olde English with some things or overuse of words ("aplomb" had my particular ire for all of 6.0, please use a different word, there are so many to get your point across) but if I'm getting the same experience overall, a slight misstep is not going to make me be miles off from where the end destination is.

I don't think equating a form of harassment to a character in a video game is at all an appropriate comparison... I can understand the discomfort people feel about this, but I guarantee you that it's nowhere close to this. I don't doubt that cases exist, but changing the story to accommodate for them is something that.
And even then, taking Haurchefant's interactions and calling it 'harassment' is something I can't understand...
I don't think such standards need to be applied to fictional characters in such a way, with the same reverence we would apply to them in real-life. I'm perfectly capable of taking the threat of being murdered or assaulted seriously even after all of the media which depicts, if not glorifies, such things, same with media which or glorifies sexual things. Japanese users don't seem to take issue with it either, even rebelling at the thought of it having an effect on behavior. Why can't Westerners see it the same way? I don't think it needs to be regarded the same way as it does in real-life, context matters and the same couldn't be said about this.

My overall take is, if it were genuinely better for it to not exist, then it should be that way for the game as a whole, not only in specific regions. A book shouldn't have chapters removed just so it can be published in a different country. A game shouldn't have content be cut or revised for the same reason either.

I'm just going to quote all of this because it's a lot, and you're still not quite grasping why people are finding it a problem, and are instead brushing it off.

Here is mention of chikan, or sexual harassment on trains from the beginning of this year, something even more recent from earlier this month about chikan, and another on how often it happens - can't find a publish date, which is frustrating, but if a news article from this month is mentioning a push to end it or make people feel comfortable on reporting it, it's still a valid resource at this point, which is incredibly sad. Japan's take of "if we don't see it, it's not happening' isn't really a great take to defend, either, just saying, especially when more and more of the younger generations are going "this isn't great". They even recently OK'd a bill to pass in which makes the listed even more illegal than before for things like upskirting or whatnot... things that were common tropes in anime for the "loveable pervert" trope, and for good measure, the sharp rise of it as reported earlier in the year. "That's a small number" but as the other articles say, a lot of people don't report it - sounds quite familiar, as it's the same in the US. Not being taken seriously, nothing being done about it, or the least amount of things done about it is what keeps people (both men and women) from reporting a rape or other sexual assault. For people who have had this happen to them, someone being that forward can bring back traumatic memories, whether you believe it or not, because it can be how it happened to them, or similar enough that it makes them uncomfortable.

Cultures are always going to be different, yes, and that's fine. I understand JP culture because I've been following it and immersed in it since before I was a teenager. I also see where we differ on things, and just because one side grew up going "hm, this is okay to do" (and now it's not being as okay, as evidenced as above) doesn't mean the other side will have to embrace it and like it, especially as times change and therefore change what is happening in the world. It's changing in Japan now too, 10 years ago is a wildly different time than now, and I wouldn't be surprised if they had done this now, the other languages would have been closer to the NA version instead.

And for the record... no lol
Just no.

I don't need to insult people to prove my point, at least when it's not warranted (i.e. being insulted first).

I pointed out multiple times where there was no provocation involved already where you did in my previous post, which in turn made people do the same back:

Your insistence that it's people getting "upset" over things that don't matter is not helping your case either, because they may not matter TO YOU but they obviously matter to those that see a problem. You won't get people warming up to your stance if you constantly insult them either, despite crying that people are insulting you, for instance saying that they're all puritanical Westerners who don't understand the "finer nuances" of Japanese culture, and that the people who weren't exactly excited about how the JP version should "seek therapy" if they felt excessively creeped out by him:

And for your own words:

[quote]I've seen people genuinely react with vigor at the way he was written in the JP version, like with utmost disgust like they were being assaulted.

To those people I suggest therapy.[quote]

I really don't see what there is to be so uncomfortable over. Yeah he's a 'creep' but it's a character in a video game and his original inception actually serves a valid purpose. His interactions are genuinely funny and the fact that people would rather see that revised because it would be inconvenient to 'toughen up' in favor of compromising the artistic and literary integrity of the product, thereby contributing to a culture of accommodating insecurity disguised as socio-cultural apologetics.

I genuinely think that the majority of players wouldn't feel so bothered by it, or they would overlook it along with all the other 'problematic' aspects of a Japanese product, and for those who are made uncomfortable by it, what's the harm? I think challenging their insecurities in the context of fiction is a good thing. It's how I learned to treat art as art and not as something that has to reflect real-life values. Fantasy is harmless.

Within the western anime community, there exists people with colonial mentalities who genuinely believe that such tropes, plots, characters, etc. constitute some degree of harm and base this harm on the discomfort they feel when exposed to it, but lack the self-awareness and introspection skills to recognize whether that discomfort constitutes 'harm'.

I don't see how being made to feel uncomfortable by Haurchefant's 'advances' should be taken any more seriously than someone disturbed by anything else in this game.

It might not be on par with "haha weeb" or namecalling, but that's still fairly insulting to those who did come back with well thought out responses to you but disagreed. I said what I said because with others that have said similarly, they've been called "soft" or "woke" when they're likely talking from experience.

I think your overall point about being sensitive over it feeling like harassment is probably the most valid response, but still falls short of the broader content being mere fiction, coupled with the intentions of the creators being made clear of being a joke, and I stand by my previous statements about people 'growing a spine'. I think going out of their way to accommodate that sensitivity and discomfort is the wrong approach to take if it's the 'true vision' of the product, because in later years or in other products, they're going to go with the characterization of the JP script because that's the true version. Even the LINE Messenger icons of Haurchefant are representative of his Japanese characterization.

Just because it is fiction does not mean people can or will divorce it from real life easily, especially when they've had something similar or identical happen to them. I'm not sure how else I can really say that without going full 2004 sparkletext. Some things are easy, some things are not. When recent statistics are saying 1 in 6 women have experienced attempted or a completed sexual assault... that's a lot of women. Imagine if all of them who have experienced some degree of it came forward, that number would likely be a lot smaller. 1 in 6 is still incredibly small of a number. That would also apply to the users of this forum, who should not have to come right out and say "yeah I was raped and JP Haurchefant reminds me of that and that's why I'm uncomfortable," just saying "no it would make me uncomfortable" should be more than enough.

We also don't get those LINE stickers here, because who in the US uses LINE? It's mainly Asia who uses it. Yes, we get the rips from people who use it in the US or by people who use it to connect to their family members in Asia, but they're a drop in the bucket compared to Asia as a whole who use it as their main messaging app.

I named off 4Kids because they're a textbook case of localization that a lot of people seem to forget about, and yes, they have. We literally watched entire anime and manga be butchered by Crunchyroll. I remember Dragon Maid, I literally cancelled my CR sub because of all of their craziness.

The only censorship and changes I'm finding in any search is for the Chinese version of Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid. I'm not seeing any instance of what you're talking about happening in the Crunchyroll version of the anime, and seeing that we have an uncensored sub on Crunchy. It's wholly possible I missed something in going back some to see what may have been changed, but if you have sources beyond "just trust me bro" that'd be great.

As for a lot of 4kids-ification of anime in general, I'm old enough to remember when anime was seen as demonic or adult-only. ...then again I remember when it was "it's for kids lol" so the debate has always been there. Having people see it as some horrible demonic thing in the 90s was certainly something, same with the satanic scare of Dungeons and Dragons. It's less so now, and so anime dubs even for kids have changed to be closer to their counterparts, but yes, I was there, Gandalf, I was there 3000 years ago when Haruka and Michiru were cousins in the Sailor Moon S dub. Times have changed and they're very obviously not in the newer dub from Viz, but before it would not have been viable for them to air it without heavy censorship. It sucks, but that's how it goes.

As for the game 'being Japanese', it's about the title (if not franchise) as a whole being a product of Japanese writers and artists, shaped by the culture which they existed in, their liberal use of a variety of Western fantasy and mythological characters, tropes, etc. The game itself has made its Japanese character evident even beyond that, like the celebrating of Japanese holidays, and partnering with Japanese properties to do cross-over events with, etc.

Banri Oda, the main world and lore builder for the series, looks outside his Japanese roots to create correct environments for every area in FFXIV, he's stated repeatedly on record that he loves learning about other cultures and reading different kinds of books that give him inspiration for everything he's created for FFXIV. The only true Japanese holiday that's celebrated in XIV is the way New Year is celebrated as more of a Lunar New Year, and Little Ladies Day which is just Children's Day. Halloween, Christmas, Valentines are pretty obvious Western holidays that are popular in Japan. Summer is debatable as there are many holidays in a lot of cultures that happen during what we'd see as the Summer months. The only collabs that XIV has done are within their own franchises - FFXI, Dragon Quest, FFXIII, and FFXV. All of them take place in fantasy worlds that are not confined to Japan, and the only real argument that you can get to in that is "FFXI's Summer event is distinctly Japan", but the rest really aren't, and XIV is pretty similar to their holiday quests.

With Western references and jokes, I..genuinely don't like it. I begrudgingly tolerate it because it's a joke in the JP version as well, and I assume that that's fine, though I'd prefer to just see the JP version. I personally just think the 'Channel Awesome' approach of constantly inserting jokes or references to things that exist in the broader culture is a lame approach, because you can't always guarantee that it'll amuse more than it annoys, but it also kills opportunity for something actually intriguing or conducive to immersed engagement, which it probably won't be because most references aren't written with that dual-purpose in mind for the sake of those who don't get it or pick up on that it's a reference.
That point stands even with respect to JP-centric jokes or references, but I'd still like to see those translated over.

And that's fine! You have a preference, and I won't say you're wrong for having it. I play a lot of games in Japanese because I like their voices most of the time more than the dub version, but dubs have come a long way so I don't mind them as much anymore; it's the same with anime. Having silly pop culture references don't really bother me, and to me just feels like the localization team are appealing to my crappost tendencies, which I personally enjoy, but I know it's not for everyone - really, it just feels like a bunch of Pop Team Epic to me anyway. However having a lot of things not be enjoyable for a broader audience by having jokes we don't get doesn't really make people want to learn or understand, it just makes them not want to play a game that does that and doesn't think that there are other cultures outside of their own. Eventually the pop culture references will fall out of favour, as a lot of things do, and they'll change their approach since that's an important part of localization and transliteration is understanding the base of people you're trying to cater to. We do still get a huge amount of visual puns, because that's something that is enjoyed pretty globally, but unfortunately the word pun approach would not work, and likely turn more people off to things than draw in.

The balance line of "appealing to a larger audience" or "appealing to a smaller audience" will always go into the "larger" for more money made.

[Dorito_Burrito]

I feel that as a suggestion, it's dead on arrival.