CC needs SERIOUS changes

[Vatom]

I'd argue against that.

PLD - 12K Shield every 20s || 15% MIT for 10s every 20s || 6K Healing (flat) (over 3 GCD's) Confiteor every 20s || Every 4 GCD's = 4000 Atonement Heal (flat) || Stun/Dash Atonement buffing
DRK - 8K Shield every 15s || 20% MIT for 10s w/ 6K healing every 30s || 8-32K+ (scales) Quietus instant healing every 15s || Every 3 GCD's = 5000+ Soulstealer Heal (scales) || health/mana restoration on kill

If you're talking controlled burst engagements, especially in chokepoints for AoE, DRK blows out PLD from Quietus scaling alone. The PLD is also blowing Guard for covers and not necessarily when they're frontlining. And if they use Guard to frontline/escape like a normal tank, their covers get them killed a lot of times or they burn all their mana and have to pot. PLD LB has a longer charge time and doesn't personally heal the PLD while a DRK can LB at the last minute and get back to 50-100% health from the passive on it. A skilled DRK is always more cancerous to kill than a PLD. DRK's also put out a good bit more damage than PLD. Outside of cover & possibly LB group utility, DRK is better than PLD.

Imma have to disagree and say PLD is more tankier then DRK but there are trade offs for each

[Valence]

One of the main issues of Living Dead under Eventide is that if the DRK wants to deal damage, they need to spamm their HP eating skill enough so that they stay near dead, and near the end of it have to fully heal back. It makes that moment actually extremely touchy for them because the greedier they get, the more punishable as well if they get CCed at the end. And if they don't, they still burn an ungodly amount of recuperate to get back up on top of quietus, which leaves them on literal fumes after the effect vanishes and very easily killable.

[VoidsentStatus]

One of the main issues of Living Dead under Eventide is that if the DRK wants to deal damage, they need to spamm their HP eating skill enough so that they stay near dead, and near the end of it have to fully heal back. It makes that moment actually extremely touchy for them because the greedier they get, the more punishable as well if they get CCed at the end. And if they don't, they still burn an ungodly amount of recuperate to get back up on top of quietus, which leaves them on literal fumes after the effect vanishes and very easily killable.

/if/ they want to deal damage aka they're suiciding. for some reason that isn't explained in the example scenario. they don't need to be under lb to suicide from spamming that ability. why a dark knight would regularly be suiciding their health without a quietus planned for recovery idk. as for an ungodly amount of recuperate, Quietus under LB with just 2 targets hit is 50% health. 16K base quietus + 16K from the LB passive. 1 recupe = 75% health, 2 recuperates to be back at full health. As for being CC'd at the end, a DRK shouldn't be waiting until then. The same principle applies to Monk with Riddle with being silenced or poly'd at the end and unable to trigger it. You already know any CC is going to come in at the last 2-4seconds and so you have a trigger finger on purify, a LoS counter, or you sustain early to avoid the counter play. The only reason to stay at low health past 6s into the DRK LB is to squeeze out 1-2 more GCD's with max damage and that becomes a risk assessment of that extra damage vs. the likelihood someone has CC saved to help kill you.

[Elfidan]

Your damage reduction on DRK is based around standing in you puddle but you also need to be in melee to do your job. Now I've played with a lot of travelers from Dynamis, and I have a pretty good idea of how they play around things like this but here on primal we generally don't stand in the puddle with the DRK. Your ideal burst happens by purposely lowering your hp to get a big bloodspiller then hopefully hitting a big quietus when the entire enemy team dives onto you.

By contrast PLD can just pop its damage reduction when it feels like it and there's no extra caveat such as making friends to stand in your puddle of sadness. You even get your burst for chasing opponents and it doesn't hurt you. Taking this into account I would have to agree that PLD is better at damage mitigation than the average DRK within pvp. So good in fact the DR on said mitigation was reduced.

As for WAR they are made of paper and GNB are made of wet paper outside the use of tank junction.

People staying when they should fall back happens on every job. If I see you in the middle of your party or the front and you're at 75% or less, you're going to eat some CC. That's just how that works.

As for silence in particular I still feel like it, and MoN are just disgusting nine time out of ten. Imagine the person who was like 'yeah silence should make MNK unable to punch people and MCH unable to shoot their gun etc.' and the person who read that and was like 'yeah, this checks out send it.'. MoN doesn't need any explanation as to why it's a dumb ability.

[RyanCousland]

Imma have to disagree and say PLD is more tankier then DRK but there are trade offs for each

every-time i see someone say this i wish it were true but its not the case

[Valence]

/if/ they want to deal damage aka they're suiciding. for some reason that isn't explained in the example scenario. they don't need to be under lb to suicide from spamming that ability. why a dark knight would regularly be suiciding their health without a quietus planned for recovery idk. as for an ungodly amount of recuperate, Quietus under LB with just 2 targets hit is 50% health. 16K base quietus + 16K from the LB passive. 1 recupe = 75% health, 2 recuperates to be back at full health. As for being CC'd at the end, a DRK shouldn't be waiting until then. The same principle applies to Monk with Riddle with being silenced or poly'd at the end and unable to trigger it. You already know any CC is going to come in at the last 2-4seconds and so you have a trigger finger on purify, a LoS counter, or you sustain early to avoid the counter play. The only reason to stay at low health past 6s into the DRK LB is to squeeze out 1-2 more GCD's with max damage and that becomes a risk assessment of that extra damage vs. the likelihood someone has CC saved to help kill you.

That's essentially what I have been saying, so I'm a little confused tbh. There is a lot of variables that can go wrong for the DRK, or for the CC attackers. If one goes wrong (like a dud quietus), then it can snowball. But you're right, if executed and covered properly, the DRK should be fine.

[Vatom]

every-time i see someone say this i wish it were true but its not the case

care too elaborate? Im curious

[RyanCousland]

care too elaborate? Im curious

aside from what Void already said and especially considering DRK has a more passive/shorter way of regaining health, PLD only seems "Tankier" on paper, all of the "tanks" can 1v2 just fine, (gnb might be an exception considering its more of DPS, WAR idk anything about but i guess this is more of a DRK vs PLD) and when it comes to holding key points at the crystal id say DRK is better because before PLD can initiate its healing itll be dead as explained previously, HS doesn't do much for DR when theres not only other WS that act as an equalizer but when youre engaging more than one opponent its a drop in the bucket compared to the dps being delivered, Sacred claim only gives 2k with every hit and Atonement 4k so thats like 3-5s of getting 6k heal vs getting hit with 8-12k dps per opponent per WS, compare that to SE and quietus and its relatively shorter with more healing

[RyanCousland]

1 - MAX 1 healer & 1 tank per group
2 - One shot kill abilities need to be removed (ninja LB, sam LB, etc)
3 - Pick up potions should be removed from the map
4 - Remove time limit for claiming end of season rewards

i have a slight change of heart with this cuz i went up against 3 tanks three times and in one match they had a whm so maybe just 2 roles/types
one hit KO LB's to me isnt an issue its reg skills that are BS (>.> im lookin at you MCH mains)
i dont see why potions need to be removed
i agree with #4

just to clarify the issue is more about the skillset that was present with a PLD,WAR,DRK comp and add a goddamn WHM to be the pickle on that crap sandwich

[Valence]

3 tanks and a healer at high rank is pretty subpar, the party dps and pressure is absolutely abysmal. Unless maybe if your GNB goes DPS junction that is.