Removal of Positionals

[ZiraZ]

Coordinated for what exactly? I could slightly agree if true north didn't exist, but what coordination is required outside of the tank always holding the boss north, which isn't difficult given bosses tend to be pretty static as its generally mechanics that force players to move around. Hell, even when bosses do move, they reset themselves after the mechanic fires off and warp back to the middle lol.

I just don't really see the benefit of them. They're not difficult to maintain and they don't really add anything imo. If they stay, they stay, if they don't then they don't and nothing really changes if they go.

They add flavor, they add a small layer of complexity and they are dare I say, fun?
Yeah they are not hard in general, but their goal is not to get most but to get them all in a fight, in that regard they can be actually be very hard in some bosses where the TN has to be allocated for portions of the fight where getting any positionals is literally impossible otherwise (reminder that p5-p8 is still an anomaly of extreme melee friendliness)
It would be like saying we should remove all of the caster's casts because I mean duh they are gonna cast the spells anyways why add the extra delay? Just make everything summoner lmao.

[CelestiCer]

My personal taste on positionals is that I find them to be a chore and abhorrent. They don't give me any rewarding feeling when I get them right, especially since there is so little feedback with them...

Feedback is a Good point.
Unlike say Kaiten, positionals have near no immediate positive feedback nor negative to encourage more of the positive. Finishing a target/fight knowing you did all you could is about all the feedback you'll get.

It's impossible to argue Fun since its subjective. Aside from Fun or not? I pile Positional removal with desire for " Effortless Gameplay and Comfier ".

• No gear Routes/Skilltrees/Rotation deviations
• No more 12345 Combo buttons
• No more small hitboxes
• No more boss positioning, it auto warps back to the center
• No more resource management
• No more Gauges just remove them
• No more Double weaving requirement
• No more thinking it's all 2 minute
• No more pressing buttons at all its all Auto-Combo
• No more self-mitigation management, all integrated passives now

Saying Positionals adds nothing is dismissive unless you mean purely for your own enjoyment. Tank pulls and Melees movement gets affected by the existence of positionals ever so slightly. Just cause something is easy doesn't dismiss it as meaningless, cause that logic can be applied to everything of varying difficulty that varies per player on what they find difficult and easy.

If its all about " meaninglessness " cause it's " that-easy " and there for it " adds-nothing " then it goes towards making the game " effortless and comfier ". Then at that point? what is the logic to not follow the list listed above? Why stop at positional removal if its about how optimally comfy we can make the game? Cause we can go pretty far with how comfy we wanna make the already pretty pillow gameplay we have. I'm watching Edgerunners as I do Savage reclears. Maybe we want to go towards " One-handed-gameplay " so I can do that while munching on popcorn... maybe that is indeed the more fun route and maybe I am wrong.

[Deo14]

I could slightly agree if true north didn't exist, but what coordination is required outside of the tank always holding the boss north, which isn't difficult given bosses tend to be pretty static as its generally mechanics that force players to move around.

Same could be said about most of the job mechanics. Neither Kaiten or just following basic 1-2-3 is hard to do, but once these little details start stacking up, then it adds depth to a job and creates healthy, gradual skill curve. If you wanted job mechanic to have significant impact, then you end up with unhealthy jump or even a wall in skill curve. People who couldn't do this potential mechanic will perform much worse and become discouraged from even playing the job.

As for True North, it adds another depth to positionals. If you know a fight and you know that boss is going to turn, you can plan on using it beforehand. If you don't know boss will turn, you can either use TN in panic and possibly clip GCD, not use it at all and fail positional, or the worst case, you delay your GCD, move to correct position, and then resume. It doesn't matter that it makes just X percent damage difference, it still provides extra space for your improvement.

[Ransu]

They add flavor, they add a small layer of complexity and they are dare I say, fun?
Yeah they are not hard in general, but their goal is not to get most but to get them all in a fight, in that regard they can be actually be very hard in some bosses where the TN has to be allocated for portions of the fight where getting any positionals is literally impossible otherwise (reminder that p5-p8 is still an anomaly of extreme melee friendliness)
It would be like saying we should remove all of the caster's casts because I mean duh they are gonna cast the spells anyways why add the extra delay? Just make everything summoner lmao.

There's no complexity to it though. You'd have an argument for some complexity if the game actually forced you to be exactly on the flank or rear, but realistically you don't have to be, so all you have to do is hover around the corner of the circle. I just don't see what is fun about it or what it even adds to the game. I'd rather see more complex rotations, stronger resource management and buff/debuff management like how things were back in HW (remember when DRG had piercing debuff? Good ole days). Stuff like that actually matters. Stepping 1 inch left or right is just....blah.

Same could be said about most of the job mechanics. Neither Kaiten or just following basic 1-2-3 is hard to do, but once these little details start stacking up, then it adds depth to a job and creates healthy, gradual skill curve.

Its not even in the same realm of comparisons. Kaiten had a direct impact within how the job functioned. Combos and other CD's have a direct impact in maintaining your rotation and burst windows.

Positionals have zero meaning to them and zero feedback. They neither add or take away anything from the impact of combat. They just simply exist.

[ZiraZ]

oh yeah you don't play melee nvm lmao

[Ransu]

oh yeah you don't play melee nvm lmao

I have been a melee main since ARR originally maining DRG and moving to SAM in SB. I only just started playing BLM this current tier.

I've said from the get go that I'm not bothered if positionals stay or not. I just don't see any purpose in them as I don't view them adding anything worth of value to the gameplay. The real problem is the continued removal of dots/debuffs etc... and the alignment of CD's basically all being on the same timers now. XIV has gotten worse in regards to management of skills/resources/debuffs/dots as they continue to simplify things. If you need positionals to hide those flaws then the problem is the core design, not the fact of whether or not positionals exist and of which add no real value to the gameplay.

[VentVanitas]

I level up mnk alongside my sam every expansion. I've never felt that positionals make mnk unique. I want mnk to have more things to do like near the end of the ShB expansion where the opener was fun as hell over worrying about pointless positionals. Make mnk faster and give me more things to press(more oGCD's) and more CD's to manage. That is way more interesting than stepping 1 inch to the left or the right in a game where the boss is static 90% of the time and the other 10% true north is always available.

No thanks! I'll take positionals over hit and forget oGCDs like old Elixir Field/Tornado Kick because 5.4 MNK was dogwater.

[Ransu]

No thanks! I'll take positionals over hit and forget oGCDs like old Elixir Field/Tornado Kick because 5.4 MNK was dogwater.

So you like boring and slow combat? Because that is what current mnk is with the majority of its actions being the standard combos as all their oGCD's got moved to the blitz attacks. Moving around with positionals to mask that isn't a good thing. oGCD's are also not "hit and forget." If you feel that way about them then you're not doing proper rotation management and are just mashing buttons.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I'm still unable to do a Monk rotation without muscle memorying every positional.

Rear Bootshine + True Strike, Flank Dragon Kick + Twin Snakes. I can't help it. I miss it.

[Ransu]

I'm still unable to do a Monk rotation without muscle memorying every positional.

Rear Bootshine + True Strike, Flank Dragon Kick + Twin Snakes. I can't help it. I miss it.

I still do it too sometimes and kind of laugh when I catch myself doing it.