Removal of Positionals

[GypsieJaeger]

Actually playing Reaper has its positional spots too and where I find it highly annoying is when the bosses spend over half the fights doing rear and flank damage keeping me and other melee dps out of the ideal dmg positions. I also play monk with the same issues. This is more on the newer boss fights but all the same.

[Ransu]

Coordinated for what exactly? I could slightly agree if true north didn't exist, but what coordination is required outside of the tank always holding the boss north, which isn't difficult given bosses tend to be pretty static as its generally mechanics that force players to move around. Hell, even when bosses do move, they reset themselves after the mechanic fires off and warp back to the middle lol.

I just don't really see the benefit of them. They're not difficult to maintain and they don't really add anything imo. If they stay, they stay, if they don't then they don't and nothing really changes if they go.

[ZiraZ]

Coordinated for what exactly? I could slightly agree if true north didn't exist, but what coordination is required outside of the tank always holding the boss north, which isn't difficult given bosses tend to be pretty static as its generally mechanics that force players to move around. Hell, even when bosses do move, they reset themselves after the mechanic fires off and warp back to the middle lol.

I just don't really see the benefit of them. They're not difficult to maintain and they don't really add anything imo. If they stay, they stay, if they don't then they don't and nothing really changes if they go.

They add flavor, they add a small layer of complexity and they are dare I say, fun?
Yeah they are not hard in general, but their goal is not to get most but to get them all in a fight, in that regard they can be actually be very hard in some bosses where the TN has to be allocated for portions of the fight where getting any positionals is literally impossible otherwise (reminder that p5-p8 is still an anomaly of extreme melee friendliness)
It would be like saying we should remove all of the caster's casts because I mean duh they are gonna cast the spells anyways why add the extra delay? Just make everything summoner lmao.

[Ransu]

They add flavor, they add a small layer of complexity and they are dare I say, fun?
Yeah they are not hard in general, but their goal is not to get most but to get them all in a fight, in that regard they can be actually be very hard in some bosses where the TN has to be allocated for portions of the fight where getting any positionals is literally impossible otherwise (reminder that p5-p8 is still an anomaly of extreme melee friendliness)
It would be like saying we should remove all of the caster's casts because I mean duh they are gonna cast the spells anyways why add the extra delay? Just make everything summoner lmao.

There's no complexity to it though. You'd have an argument for some complexity if the game actually forced you to be exactly on the flank or rear, but realistically you don't have to be, so all you have to do is hover around the corner of the circle. I just don't see what is fun about it or what it even adds to the game. I'd rather see more complex rotations, stronger resource management and buff/debuff management like how things were back in HW (remember when DRG had piercing debuff? Good ole days). Stuff like that actually matters. Stepping 1 inch left or right is just....blah.

Same could be said about most of the job mechanics. Neither Kaiten or just following basic 1-2-3 is hard to do, but once these little details start stacking up, then it adds depth to a job and creates healthy, gradual skill curve.

Its not even in the same realm of comparisons. Kaiten had a direct impact within how the job functioned. Combos and other CD's have a direct impact in maintaining your rotation and burst windows.

Positionals have zero meaning to them and zero feedback. They neither add or take away anything from the impact of combat. They just simply exist.

[Deo14]

I could slightly agree if true north didn't exist, but what coordination is required outside of the tank always holding the boss north, which isn't difficult given bosses tend to be pretty static as its generally mechanics that force players to move around.

Same could be said about most of the job mechanics. Neither Kaiten or just following basic 1-2-3 is hard to do, but once these little details start stacking up, then it adds depth to a job and creates healthy, gradual skill curve. If you wanted job mechanic to have significant impact, then you end up with unhealthy jump or even a wall in skill curve. People who couldn't do this potential mechanic will perform much worse and become discouraged from even playing the job.

As for True North, it adds another depth to positionals. If you know a fight and you know that boss is going to turn, you can plan on using it beforehand. If you don't know boss will turn, you can either use TN in panic and possibly clip GCD, not use it at all and fail positional, or the worst case, you delay your GCD, move to correct position, and then resume. It doesn't matter that it makes just X percent damage difference, it still provides extra space for your improvement.

[Shurrikhan]

I just don't really see the benefit of them. They're not difficult to maintain and they don't really add anything imo. If they stay, they stay, if they don't then they don't and nothing really changes if they go.

Wouldn't that apply for nearly every basic increase to apm?

• Kaiten? I just don't really see the benefit of it. It wasn't difficult to maintain and it didn't really add anything imo. If it stays, it stays, if they doesn't then it doesn't and nothing really changes if it goes.
• Shinten? I just don't really see the benefit of it. It wasn't difficult to maintain and it didn't really add anything imo. If it stays, it stays, if they doesn't then it doesn't and nothing really changes if it goes.
• The Forbidden Chakra / Enlightenment? I just don't really see the benefit of them. They're not difficult to maintain and they don't really add anything imo. If they stay, they stay, if they don't then they don't and nothing really changes if they go.
• Edge/Flood of Shadow? I just don't really see the benefit of them. They're not difficult to maintain and they don't really add anything imo. If they stay, they stay, if they don't then they don't and nothing really changes if they go.

The difference, of course, is that positionals increased button usage was more distinct (in that it used the joystick/WASD, not just another discrete button), was more efficient (it didn't require a unique button), and was more contextual.
I.e.... the most button-efficient and inherently nuance-bearing (even if still not to any huge degree) way one could increase APM.

Now, if you want to make the claim that True North was hot garbage and some other, button-free finite means of leniency should have been used instead, I'd fully agree, but positionals, especially in a fluid abundance, are in themselves and oddly smart design.

[ZiraZ]

oh yeah you don't play melee nvm lmao

[Ransu]

oh yeah you don't play melee nvm lmao

I have been a melee main since ARR originally maining DRG and moving to SAM in SB. I only just started playing BLM this current tier.

I've said from the get go that I'm not bothered if positionals stay or not. I just don't see any purpose in them as I don't view them adding anything worth of value to the gameplay. The real problem is the continued removal of dots/debuffs etc... and the alignment of CD's basically all being on the same timers now. XIV has gotten worse in regards to management of skills/resources/debuffs/dots as they continue to simplify things. If you need positionals to hide those flaws then the problem is the core design, not the fact of whether or not positionals exist and of which add no real value to the gameplay.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I'm still unable to do a Monk rotation without muscle memorying every positional.

Rear Bootshine + True Strike, Flank Dragon Kick + Twin Snakes. I can't help it. I miss it.

[Ransu]

I'm still unable to do a Monk rotation without muscle memorying every positional.

Rear Bootshine + True Strike, Flank Dragon Kick + Twin Snakes. I can't help it. I miss it.

I still do it too sometimes and kind of laugh when I catch myself doing it.