why the devs take the lazy way out on low lvl content scaling?

[Chloe_Saunders]

If it's so easy why don't you explain in detail exactly how it should be done?

Armchair programmers at their best.

I have an idea, but I don't care either way.

Perhaps instead of base poteceny om the skills it scales with your stat, not the level. So when the level sync drops your status, it drops potency There for you keep all your skills just the potential damage is within level rage of the content.

But I don't care that much tbh

[Ravenblade1979]

literally set everything to min ilvl then program it so gear cant beat ilvl. problem solved. then watch whining start its too hard lol

[magitekLuna]

literally set everything to min ilvl then program it so gear cant beat ilvl. problem solved. then watch whining start its too hard lol

what dungeon is hard? you can run them all naked all that change it take 2 min longer.

[Ravenblade1979]

what dungeon is hard? you can run them all naked all that change it take 2 min longer.

this is an example of a person not reading what i posted.

[magitekLuna]

this is an example of a person not reading what i posted.

i did , you think lowering the ilvl to min will make people see that dungeons actually hard. i from years of playing this game can say it not so after 2.4

[Mikey_R]

Perhaps instead of base poteceny om the skills it scales with your stat, not the level. So when the level sync drops your status, it drops potency There for you keep all your skills just the potential damage is within level rage of the content.

Considering Potency is just a damage multiplier and this still doesn't account for different healing and mitigation kits or oGCDs as a whole, this isn't a solution to the problem.

You say this as though SE actually takes low level balance into account anymore. They don't. Newer jobs simply by virtue of their potencies being made for the content they were released in already don't account for low level content but since they aren't excluded from being level synched down to that content, any and all low level balance is thrown straight out the window.
GNB at level 50 does more damage and has better survivability than PLD by a mile.
DNC completely invalidates every other DPS at level 50 just for having Standard Step.
WHM is just totally outclassed by all other healers at level 50 due to poor sustain and having the most costly spells out of all healers but fast forward to level 80 and Misery is now a DPS gain because it wasn't balanced properly and just given extra potency to match EW's Glare potency and not ShB's Glare.

You cannot use low level balance as a defense because it doesn't exist.

They obviously take it into some consideration as jobs aren't that unbalanced compared to each other at lower levels, let's use your examples.

GNB avergae potency per GCD is 295 (123+ BS), add in Danger Zone for an extra effective 20.83 PPG for PLD Combo 270, for SW + CoS, 43.3 PPG, so, add them up, GNB has a potency per GCD of 315.83, PLD, 313.3. Very similar. GNB does outdo PLD in mitigation/healing however.

DNC Standard Step takes 4.5 seconds to cast, which, if you reduced to the equivalent of a 2.5 second cast, is equal to a 400 potency per GCD. If you take the average of the DNC GCDs, it does come to ~200 PPG, not counting Fan Dance. This might seem high, however, Ninja can use Raiton at 650 potency per GCD (2.5) and they use it twice at level 50, one of them under Kassatsu for an extra 30%. As a reference, Ninja's adjusted combo potency is 384.3 potency per GCD (2.5). Granted, DNC will have an extra 5%, so you can increase the potencies to 420 and 210 respectively. And do not get me started on SAM. All this to say, it isn't good enough to just go, look, high potency, there is alot more that goes into it than that.

As for AoE, The falloff for Standard Step is insane. The falloff damage is the same as Windmill, the first step in DNCs AoE combo, which means the AoE combo would do more damage than the falloff and the only reason it is so strong is that initial hit on the one enemy. Alot of jobs will be able to out do that.

It got an extra ~3% on Afflatus, yay. The bigger impact would have been reducing the lilly cooldown from 30 seconds to 20 seconds, so I don't know why you didn't reference that.

The point is to balance the jobs (roughly) around each other and not have one glaringly stand out from the rest, which I would say they have achieved. It might not be balanced perfectly around the content due to system changes, but the point is they are balanced around each other. Now, you cannot balance a high level job with a low level. You cannot just make the lower stats do all the work as the potency will just inflate the damage. However, there is also no easy way to adjust the potencies to allow balance between the jobs. This is the point. If they wanted to rebalance the older stuff, it would probably be a simple case of increasing stats by, say, 20%-50% for ARR. Wide range, I know, but that would be an easier thing to pin down than the insane prospect of potency balancing every job for every piece of content for every level range.

people that never in the hole life touched any thing programing related? you can do it and there lot of games that do , some better that others. you do not balance the dungeon here but the skills them self. you change how much DPS/healing they do. how its such a hard concept to understand? like i don't get you people. on one hand you parse the devs and yoshi as some of the most talented people in existence . on the other hand any small thing that people want you say that this devs have no way to do. it cant be both all the time

The question was never whether it could be done or not, the issue is would it be worth the dev time to do it and the answer is going to be a no. If you think it is an easy thing, balance one job, from level 90 to all levelling dungeons. I guarantee you will struggle to find any universal solution to the problem and now think, you now have to do it for the whole level range from 15-90 to go into any dungeon from level 15-90 and now you have to do that 18 more times, once for every job. Again, it is never a case of whether it could theoretically be done, it is a case of, would it be worth it to even do in the first place.

[Deceptus]

I am missing quite a few abilities then. I distinctly remember Fluid Aura, Protect, Stoneskin 1+2 and Divine Seal when I was playing ARR on my WHM as well as Stone 1+2 and Aero 1+2 being their own buttons and Cleric Stance being a thing.

Bets response to the "You didn't have abilities at that low level". Yeah, we did. They got pruned later.

[Silver-Strider]

The point is to balance the jobs (roughly) around each other and not have one glaringly stand out from the rest, which I would say they have achieved

I'd argue it could still be better. Apart from the ST damage being within close proximity to one another, there are still other factors to consider.
DRG's AoE rotation is no more or less powerful than that of MNK or SAM but they have those skills prior to level 50, so couldn't they be brought down to a more reasonable level?
PLD is lacking mitigation/healing in comparison to GNB so would lowering the level of Bulwark really make it that much better? Same with Oblation on DRK
Would having Rapture/Solace on WHM prior to level 50 really change how the job performs in comparison to the other healers that already have their sustain tools and more oGCDs to boot?
Other areas of balance can still be addressed, even if the whole rotation can't be brought alongside it.

[Mikey_R]

I'd argue it could still be better. Apart from the ST damage being within close proximity to one another, there are still other factors to consider.
DRG's AoE rotation is no more or less powerful than that of MNK or SAM but they have those skills prior to level 50, so couldn't they be brought down to a more reasonable level?
PLD is lacking mitigation/healing in comparison to GNB so would lowering the level of Bulwark really make it that much better? Same with Oblation on DRK
Would having Rapture/Solace on WHM prior to level 50 really change how the job performs in comparison to the other healers that already have their sustain tools and more oGCDs to boot?
Other areas of balance can still be addressed, even if the whole rotation can't be brought alongside it.

I am a firm advocate of every job having an AoE of some description in the first dungeon.

For mitigation kits between PLD and GNB, you are comparing whether it is better to have Sheltron or Camoflage and Aurora. I would say PLD has enough mitigation for content, so you can argue GNB has too much. The actual one that needs looking at is DRK, Dark Mind is essentially useless and they don't have TBN, so giving them Oblation early would actually be a benefit to them.

For Afflatus actions, one of their main benefits is the weaving window they provide, WHM really doesn't have anything that needs weaving, so really, you are just giving them a free Cure 2. I can also bring in my personal annecdote that I have never had MP problems with WHM in level 50 content, so is it really that much of an issue? It is one of those things that really isn't needed, but at the same time, it doesn't break the balance either.

However, all these things are a completely different discussion from the topic, which is allowing a level 90 to keep everything in every dungeon. I can think of a few places where some things need to be bought to lower levels, Bard having access to all 3 songs at level 50 or Ninja having access to Armour Crush as examples. Of course, how they would affect the balance between the jobs would need to be looked at as giving Bard access to Pitch Perfect or Ninja an extra Raiton could make them too strong. This is then where traits start to come into it as you give a job a weaker version of their kit and upgrade later, just like Monk and their Chakra spenders. But again, different discussion to the one in the topic.

[magitekLuna]

[QUOTE=Mikey_R;6227745
The question was never whether it could be done or not, the issue is would it be worth the dev time to do it and the answer is going to be a no. If you think it is an easy thing, balance one job, from level 90 to all levelling dungeons. I guarantee you will struggle to find any universal solution to the problem and now think, you now have to do it for the whole level range from 15-90 to go into any dungeon from level 15-90 and now you have to do that 18 more times, once for every job. Again, it is never a case of whether it could theoretically be done, it is a case of, would it be worth it to even do in the first place.[/QUOTE]

no i think it will take some time. the moset soon i think we can hope to see it be in 7.1-7.3 time frame. as for it to be easy, not the most hard thing in the work but take times as there lots of things to do.