How MUCH healing can non-Healers do?

[fulminating]

WAR basically has an 8 second Walking Dead on a shorter cooldown.

Dark knight has a long cooldown bloodwhetting strapped onto its invuln.

[ForsakenRoe]

God I should have stayed in bed. Also I'll put it in HB because it's long as hell

The sad thing is, you and I aren't dissimilar, you just don't see it: "if I was there and waiting for MP5 I'd be wanding the boss to at least help with damage (and getting Judgement of Wisdom procs to help get my mana back faster). It's a cooperative game, with a timer to beat on the content (enrage), so you bet your bottom dollar that if I can safely help my team to beat that timer in some way, I'll do that."

This describes me as well. Glarespam is the modern Wanding.

As to the earlier in its history: Wanding was autoattack. It wasn't an active button you pressed. That'd be like if in FFXIV a WHM right-clicked the boss and, when not casting heals, un-actively twacked them with their staffs. Not exactly the gameplay you're asking for (nor I, for that matter). Vanilla healers were actively discouraged from dpsing. And some from healing. (PLDs were brought for their buffs and Druids for Innevation, I think the name of it is?) Or, in some cases, from even entering combat (Paladins). Druids were brought to Vanilla raids to give mana to the Holy Priests, whose sole job was healing because mana economy kind of sucked. The reason healers didn't damage was because they couldn't without being unable to heal. There weren't massive mana free heals like there are now in WoW, so if you went oom, your tank died, and that meant you failed at your role. Also, healer damage spells were garbage at the time while costing stupidly high mana, and worse, agro management was very much an issue, and heals already generated a lot of agro, meaning doing additional damage risked turning the boss on the healer (and likely cleaving the raid)

Well, glarespam, staff-whacks, same thing really isn't it? Except one locks you out of GCD. And costs mana, potentially meaning you don't have enough resources left to heal with. And has a cast time that is interrupted by movement.

me and you aren't so dissimilar if you'd just take yes for a freakin' answer.

I'm stubborn, obnoxious, bullheaded and toxic. Are you?

psst!

[whisper]nice edit[/whisper]

1) With the current damage output and healing requirements and potencies. All things that we're talking about changing and would make your maths irrelevant.

2) Good for you? Again, we aren't as different as you want us to be.

1: Okay, so now instead of talking about facts and numbers, we're going to base the argument of whether it's a good idea to completely upend the healing model of the entire game, on a nebulous head-canon of 'what it could be like', which if you asked 20 people, would likely yield at least 15 different answers about the detail. So if we're still using 55% of our actions on damage, even after converting EVERY OGCD to a GCD (and remember, that was including Soteria Zoe Krasis type stuff), what is the plan, just cut every healing potency by X%, just to 'force' players to press GCD heals more? What is X in this situation? 30%? 50? And whatever number you say X is, would another player asked the same question, give the same value for X? I highly doubt it.

Over here in the Bri'ish Isles we had Brexit. Nobody could decide what Brexit was, and it was sold to the public by the people who wanted it as a vague enough idea, that the recipient of the idea was able to fill in the blanks about what it actually meant. Less immigrants? Yes it's that. Stronger economy? Yes it'll do that too. Make our own laws? Yes we'll be able to do that as well (except we're forced to follow EU regs to be able to trade with our nearest neighbors still so that's actually a lie). Now it turns out that Brexit is unable to live up to all the selfmade hype, but because people often cannot accept being wrong, they're turning to 'well Brexit was a good idea, but this implementation of it was bad, we should have Brexit'd harder'. Even with all the economic damage it's caused.

This 'what do healers need to make them more interesting' often devolves into that similar argument-scape, where 'the envisioned, no-problems perfect implementation, in the mind' is argued as being the way forward, and we all get angry at each other because 'why can't they understand this thing that exists only in my mind?' I probably do the same occasionally but I at least try to attach numbers to it to make comparisons easier. eg: when I suggested that 'do damage, get new AOE heal skill' in the WHM pitch, I said it'd be 500p. Off of that, you can see that it is stronger than Rapture and Medica, weaker than Cure 3, and weaker than Medica2 (if you let it fully tick). I could have just said 'it does big heal' but then nobody would know what 'big heal' is, is it Cure3? Stronger? AOE Benediction?

2: Yeh good for me. So please stop implying that people are not 'real healers', or being snarky about what 'real healer' means or whatever you want to try and reword what you said as. The 'real healers' are doing what they are meant to, within the confines of the system the game has provided them. And since the game asks them to only dish out healing with around 40% of their casts, they are spending the other 60% on damage, because the alternative is to just stand there.

I wouldn't mind at all. And?

You personally might not. 80%+ of respondents on Ty's survey seem like they would. And do.

I literally did this before:

This was comparing Stormblood to Endwalker, but a similar comparison follows here since you're just using Aero 1 as your instant and Aero 2 as your cast instead of SB's Aero 2 and Aero 3, respectively.

Cleric was also an oGCD. You can argue it increased complexity, but not that it decreased Stonespam.

First, did I mention Cleric in the comparison? I don't remember doing so, nor do I see it when I go back to check the post. It's the same reason I didn't include Presence of Mind, it's not a 'does damage action'. Only reason Fluid Aura vs Assize is on there is because you brought them up and directly compared them. Secondly, you compared SB to EW in your comparison. My comparison was ARR to EW. So when you did this comparison, of your comparison to mine, you seemingly implied that SB and ARR were identical in the detail. Which they were not, Aero 3 was 24s duration, Aero 2 was 18, Aero 1 stopped existing in SB but was 12s(wayback machine says it was 18 even in ARR). Actually what the hell am I looking at here?



So Aero2 was the 'short duration' one despite having a cast time? ???? Thank god for Wayback Machine I'd never remember the weird stuff like this. I remembered there was 'a 12s dot' but not which one it was I guess. Anyway, that means I got the durations on the two Aeros on the left side swapped by accident. But the point stands: We used to have to refresh stuff more often in ARR than we did in SB, and way more than we do now in EW. Also, more APM because of Fluid Aura weaving.

Oh, and while I'm on the Wayback Machine, I figured I'd look into something. Off topic from healers, but remember that one time I mentioned BRD/ARC had a 9s duration on Venomous Bite?



What a weird time ARR was huh

Dark knight has a long cooldown bloodwhetting strapped onto its invuln.

A: only took like 6 years for them to add it

B: WAR has a short cooldown Bloodwhetting attached to a button called 'Bloodwhetting'. They also have Equilibrium, which DRK has no comparison to. The DRK is also unique in that, if they are dropped to 1 HP, without that added 'Bloodwhetting' effect, they would be the only tank that would die to their invuln skill. A WAR can have aggro taken away from them after the fatal TB, and live after Holmgang wears off. DRK just went 'in the grave' for all that time.

Now, personally I'd have implemented a very different fix for DRK's invuln. But I'm not on the dev team, which is probably a good thing. But I guess the point being made is that LD doesn't deserve the extra 1min CD?

[fulminating]

God I should have stayed in bed. Also I'll put it in HB because it's long as hell





A: only took like 6 years for them to add it

B: WAR has a short cooldown Bloodwhetting attached to a button called 'Bloodwhetting'. They also have Equilibrium, which DRK has no comparison to. The DRK is also unique in that, if they are dropped to 1 HP, without that added 'Bloodwhetting' effect, they would be the only tank that would die to their invuln skill. A WAR can have aggro taken away from them after the fatal TB, and live after Holmgang wears off. DRK just went 'in the grave' for all that time.

Now, personally I'd have implemented a very different fix for DRK's invuln. But I'm not on the dev team, which is probably a good thing. But I guess the point being made is that LD doesn't deserve the extra 1min CD?

I've died to holmgang before because a dps decided to nuke the mob I was tethered to, although that's more user error than anything. I think dark mind is more than a fair trade for equilibrium, unless the healing is what you're referring to? In which case that's on SE for removing dark knight stb abyssal drain. This is just the whole "more they're similar the more obvious differences are" deal though so eh.
I like warrior being the hp tank, even after the 2.1 rework. Give bloodbath/bloodshower back to marauder and get rid of the fixed potency heal on hit for bloodwhetting/nascent. Give it triple the hp of the other tanks and less %mitigation tools. Let me live though tyrant's unholy slap thingy through raw hp alone. And hey that'll allow those sylphies more hp bar to refill.

[Renathras]

...

Let's see...

I agree with you on the creativity/team issue (I think I made that much more explicit in that other thread).

I disagree with DPS having a "tangible and noticeable payoff". For me, I can tell when I'm healing well, because I feel less pressure. That is, if I'm using my healing abilities well, I don't feel stressed and I feel like the fight is going smoothly. On the other hand, I can tell when I'm not using my CDs well because I see health bars dip more than I'm comfortable with or I have to fill in with more GCD heals. That I can feel. I couldn't tell you if I was doing more DPS on any Job, honestly. Oh, I can feel a few screwups like on RDM if I have a touch of lag and start a slowcast Verthunder because the client hasn't registered the Dualcast buff yet (though that's a latency issue, not a skill issue), or on WAR, I can tell if I see my Storm's Eye buff falloff that I screwed that up. But I can't tell a noticeable difference - on any Job - of "the clear was faster" or whatever from my own DPS. I'm not saying no one can, but that's not at all tangible or noticeable to me.

I think I get your argument somewhat. I think. If I'm understanding it right:

1) Healing is bracketed - you do too little and people die, you do too much and everyone's health bars are full so its overhealing. Vs DPS which isn't bracketed, the lowest end is 0, and the sky's the limit. So you're suggesting the range is unbounded for damage, but the Devs have only a finite window, no matter how wide they could potentially make it, to have healing requirements fall in and still be viable. I slightly disagree - as people here say all the time, a 0 DPS Healer means the party wipes to Enrage - so there's clearly _A_ lower bound, but I do understand the idea that you CAN overheal but you CAN'T "overdps". And that the difference between doing "the minimum" and "the maximum" for DPSing can be (effectively) infinitely large while healing can only be as good as filling bars to 100% as, after that point, additional healing is wasted. (Even if a Healer Job had some mechanic which shunted excess healing into shielding, for balance reasons, the shields could only be so big and so would be the finite cap once THEY are at 100%; same problem, just slightly extended.)

2) You think that the extra DPS buttons output (in terms of clear times) should really be mainly (?) noticeable for soloing, where the difference in damage output vs fight time would be noticeable, recognizing that it generally won't be noticeable for group content just due to how low Healer damage is vs everyone else's and how it can only make so much of a difference due to being a smaller percent. In other words, a BLM going from 70 to 90 percentile makes a noticeable difference in a 4 man clear while a Healer going from 70 to 90 wouldn't be nearly as noticeable, if noticeable at all.

3) You believe making healing genuinely difficult in casual content wouldn't be possible without driving people away from the content, but...I'm guessing you think that because there are no enrages in casual content, there is no such thing as a DPS requirement, so the Glarespam (or even 0 DPS) Healer vs the damage dealing one both would still clear the content? That it's unneeded and thus not a challenge is irrelevant to the (for lack of a better term, and I don't mean this as an insult in this instance) tryhards, as they can still feel personal satisfaction from their entirely needless DPS being optimal, whereas they do not derive that same joy from having optimal healing. [This actually deserves a bit more discussion, I think...] That is, they enjoy doing maximum DPS even if it's entirely irrelevant, but they wouldn't enjoy doing maximum healing, so to speak. Hm, I don't think I'm wording this right...but maybe you get the general idea. That DPSing doesn't have to be "difficult" because it has an open ceiling people can continue to push out further while healing does not?

That is: That doing more damage is "fun" even if it's completely unnecessary but that doing more healing (or more efficient healing) if completely unnecessary is not fun. That DPS is what is fun, not healing after a certain point, even when both are equally irrelevant.

.

I think this is a distinction for a lot of us. The bracketed part is where we differ. I derive no joy at all from doing maximal/optimal DPS (not even on a DPS or Tank Job that actually DO have optimal rotations). I honestly barely even notice it. On the other hand, I like planning out and using my heals efficiently. That's what I derive joy from, even if it's entirely unnecessary for the content. What I'm gathering more and more is that a lot of people don't enjoy making their healing as efficient as possible, or that that IN ITSELF is not an enjoyable end to them. If they do it, they want to be rewarded with something else (like Semi and Forsaken often say, they want to be rewarded with an engaging DPS rotation), as the efficient and optimal healing is not ITSELF a reward to them, but doing maximum DPS is a reward to them. This is in stark contrast to my own position, which is that I get my dopamine hit from knowing I'm healing efficiently, and that IS the reward to me. That's what makes me happy. Glarespam is irrelevant, my happiness comes from knowing I'm doing my role/job - healing - efficiently. The only side-effect that's relevant at that point is that it feels smoother and less stressful, but that isn't even the reward.

It's why I like things like different MP cost heals and GCD healing, since I can then optimize in a lot of ways. Like maybe I have two people that need healing. If two Cure 1s would do the job, then that's more MP efficient than a Medica. The MP gap between Medica and Medica 2 is so low that Medica 2 is always the right choice; this annoys me SO MUCH you wouldn't believe - because I want to optimize and there's no optimization there. And so on. I remember the WoW days of Holy Priest downranking spells, and that was a form of optimizing to extend your MP bar as long as possible. That sort of thing I enjoy, while you guys seem not to, as far as I can tell?

It seems, if I'm understanding right, that for you guys, healing well and efficiently isn't itself enjoyable or rewarding, it's only if it lets you do something else - damage, apparently? - that it's rewarding, and only if that something else - damage, apparently? - feels rewarding to do?

Definitely a different paradigm. Does kind of make that "real healers" thing seem more apt than I would have thought. All this time I've been operating under a misconception, I think, based on that. I guess, given how people resist the idea of it being said they "don't like healing", I've been confused why people are so much wanting to DPS. But I think maybe that's the breakdown; that people only like healing as far as working out the puzzle, but once they have that, they aren't really interested in it, they want that something else instead.

As for Savage and up, you probably would need to rely on those rotational buttons to some degree in order to get an early clear, but gearing up may eventually enable the extreme healer to get their clear.

I feel like the tuning on that is where the rubber meets the road of "does this work or not". (Also, I've seen a LOT of enrages about 3-5% health in Extremes, so that isn't nothing.

I guess my perspective on this is it largely seems to be a case of "asking for more work to do the same thing", which seems...annoying more than enjoyable. (Though you already know I support making some kind of Holy boosting ability to give it a use in single target encounters and to make Holy work like Cure 3 as far as targeting goes - I laid that out pretty well before, so I'm sure you remember it?)

I've died to holmgang before because a dps decided to nuke the mob I was tethered to, although that's more user error than anything. I think dark mind is more than a fair trade for equilibrium, unless the healing is what you're referring to? In which case that's on SE for removing dark knight stb abyssal drain. This is just the whole "more they're similar the more obvious differences are" deal though so eh.
I like warrior being the hp tank, even after the 2.1 rework. Give bloodbath/bloodshower back to marauder and get rid of the fixed potency heal on hit for bloodwhetting/nascent. Give it triple the hp of the other tanks and less %mitigation tools. Let me live though tyrant's unholy slap thingy through raw hp alone. And hey that'll allow those sylphies more hp bar to refill.

I always thought it was cool how SCH/PLD synergized well and how WHM/WAR synergized well back in ARR. WHM could more readily fill WAR's bigger health bar/HP sponge-ness and SCH's mitigation paired well with PLD's to smooth their damage intake and keep the healing light on that pairing.

[ty_taurus]

I feel like the tuning on that is where the rubber meets the road of "does this work or not". (Also, I've seen a LOT of enrages about 3-5% health in Extremes, so that isn't nothing.

I guess my perspective on this is it largely seems to be a case of "asking for more work to do the same thing", which seems...annoying more than enjoyable. (Though you already know I support making some kind of Holy boosting ability to give it a use in single target encounters and to make Holy work like Cure 3 as far as targeting goes - I laid that out pretty well before, so I'm sure you remember it?)

At the end of the day, EX, Savage, and Ultimate exist for those that pursue challenge in some degree. They should not be designed to cater to someone who is not interested in challenge, and a part of that challenge comes into learning to perform your tools to the best of their abilities. At the end of the day, every piece of story-driven content (anything with a set of quests attached to it) is clearable regardless. Light content like FATEs, Treasure Maps, Deep Dungeons, etc. also is clearable no matter how you approach your abilities. There should be no issue with this. If a player does not care about playing more challenging fights, why would they take on EX, Savage, or Ultimate to begin with?

And even if that player really wants the EX mount, recall that the average player won't be boycotting those offensive tools, they just won't be using them to their maximum potential, something almost no one actually does anyway. The difference in their output would be even smaller than that 3-5% range. The only person who would start enforcing enrages is the person who uses none of those rotational abilities at all. If you were to still use that Holy conditional, Dia, and Assize, that improves your odds pretty significantly as that would be about half of the rotational damage potential or so, all with that hypothetical in mind.

You see it as "work." I see it as "playing the game." At the end of the day, I honestly don't really care as long as every job has the option to improve their performance through regular decision-making within their ability list. Any job that creates an environment where 1 ability is used more than every other ability is a failure to the MMORPG gameplay model.

You were gone while we had this discussion a while back, but I also suggested a system like this:

You know, I was actually thinking about something similar with Genshin's constellations in mind. In Genshin, getting duplicates of a character unlocks new perks that are generally flat upgrades to your character.

Here are some images of what that looks like:

What if instead of getting 1 new action or trait at levels 92, 94, 96, 98, and 100, you instead have something like this, but instead of 1 option, each level is associated with two similar perks, and you have to choose only 1 of them. The menu would look kinda like this:


Each side would have a theme. For White Mage, this could be the Astral path and the Umbral path. The top two icons linked are what you get at level 92. So let's say those effects look like this:

Umbral Path: Mhachi Light
Increases the potency of Glare III by 10, increases the potency of Afflatus Misery by 40, and increases the potency of Dia's damage over time effect by 5.

Astral Path: Floral Force
Decreases the potency of Glare III by 10 and the potency of Afflatus Misery by 40, and unlocks the use of the action Tempest.

Tempest: Deals unaspected damage to the target and all enemies nearby it with a potency of 510 for the first enemy and 40% less for all remaining enemies. Each time a lily is added to the Healing Gauge, enables 1 use of Tempest.

The Umbral Path is easier and offers a smaller damage variance based on performance while the Astral Path creates more room to optimize and thus has a slightly higher high but also a lower low, and your performance makes a bigger difference. The difference in these two options, if my math is correct, is the Umbral Path is a potential gain of 340 damage per minute if every GCD is used on damage or lily heals while the Astral path is a gain of 360 per minute if every GCD is used on damage or lily heals, but also gets a little more out of buffs this way as well. The difference is small, but the player has an easier path or a harder path. This kind of system would hopefully allow the design team to give healers a more aggressive route without worrying about scaring away the novice healers since they can just take the easy road.

[ForsakenRoe]

You see it as "work." I see it as "playing the game." At the end of the day, I honestly don't really care as long as every job has the option to improve their performance through regular decision-making within their ability list. Any job that creates an environment where 1 ability is used more than every other ability is a failure to the MMORPG gameplay model.

SMNs nervously looking around like

Anyway, the question I would ask in response to the first part of this quote, of what is perceived as 'work' vs 'playing the game', is 'where do we draw the line'? Is the rotation of a Tank too complex, and the 123 needs to become an automatic 111 like Gnashing Fang was? Should we remove No Mercy/FOF so that the idea of 'get your hard hits into the tight timing window' isn't as strenuous? In fact, why not go all the way and remove abilities entirely, lots of players can't even keep their GCD rolling. Just make autoattacks be several thousand percent stronger, and have that be the entire damage contributor from each player. After all, pressing abilities is 'a bunch of extra work for the same reward'.

Naturally this is sarcasm, but it's a valid point. The line of what is considered busywork for no gain vs actual gameplay is unique to each person

On a semi related note, I've been playing OSRS (like, a lot) while taking a break from FF. And there, each skill has multiple training methods, of varying complexity. Some people do combat by just hitting stuff and using food to heal. Some use prayers to prevent the damage. Some more skilled players turn on the prayer on the same gametick that the damage is going to hit, then off again, to multiply how long their prayer lasts. And some people turn the prayer off and on every single tick, tricking the game into giving the effect but not the prayer point drain, essentially making it infinite (as long as they keep the rhythm). Why is this relevant? Because when the hardest content in the game is a 69 wave gauntlet of enemies (later ones of which can literally oneshot you if you don't have the right protection prayer active), and you can only bring 28 items to heal/restore prayer with, tricks like this move from 'nice to make use of' to 'actually you might need to prayer flick at least a bit'. You can max your character without doing this 'super challenging content', and without learning these tricks. Should be the same story in FF, complete the story by literally AFKing if you want, but Savage should rightly demand that you actually 'work' or 'play the game', whichever term you feel matches more accurately

[ty_taurus]

SMNs nervously looking around like

Anyway, the question I would ask in response to the first part of this quote, of what is perceived as 'work' vs 'playing the game', is 'where do we draw the line'? Is the rotation of a Tank too complex, and the 123 needs to become an automatic 111 like Gnashing Fang was? Should we remove No Mercy/FOF so that the idea of 'get your hard hits into the tight timing window' isn't as strenuous? In fact, why not go all the way and remove abilities entirely, lots of players can't even keep their GCD rolling. Just make autoattacks be several thousand percent stronger, and have that be the entire damage contributor from each player. After all, pressing abilities is 'a bunch of extra work for the same reward'.

Naturally this is sarcasm, but it's a valid point. The line of what is considered busywork for no gain vs actual gameplay is unique to each person

On a semi related note, I've been playing OSRS (like, a lot) while taking a break from FF. And there, each skill has multiple training methods, of varying complexity. Some people do combat by just hitting stuff and using food to heal. Some use prayers to prevent the damage. Some more skilled players turn on the prayer on the same gametick that the damage is going to hit, then off again, to multiply how long their prayer lasts. And some people turn the prayer off and on every single tick, tricking the game into giving the effect but not the prayer point drain, essentially making it infinite (as long as they keep the rhythm). Why is this relevant? Because when the hardest content in the game is a 69 wave gauntlet of enemies (later ones of which can literally oneshot you if you don't have the right protection prayer active), and you can only bring 28 items to heal/restore prayer with, tricks like this move from 'nice to make use of' to 'actually you might need to prayer flick at least a bit'. You can max your character without doing this 'super challenging content', and without learning these tricks. Should be the same story in FF, complete the story by literally AFKing if you want, but Savage should rightly demand that you actually 'work' or 'play the game', whichever term you feel matches more accurately

Something else to consider...

Many fighting games regularly include a "basic combo" on each character that you preform by mashing your primary attack button. This sends your character through a combo that doesn't require any sort of button combinations and is otherwise a decent combo--nothing amazing, but enough that a button masher can feel good using it.

I am all for giving each job an "Auto Combo" button option that automatically changes to the best GCD attack choice on paper. For example, Bard's would have the priority system of Apex Arrow > Stormbite > Caustic Bite > Refulgent Arrow > Burst Shot. Anytime your Soul Voice gauge is at 80 or higher, it automatically becomes Apex Arrow. If the target does not have one of the DoTs, it will then become either DoT applying button. If both DoTs are applied and you have a charge of Refulgent Arrow, then it will change to that action, and finally it will be Burst Shot if none of the other criteria apply. There would also be an AoE Auto Combo as well. Note that this is optional, and you can still use your skills manually, but the option for someone who wants to streamline a fair amount of their gameplay has that option.

Now, this Auto Combo system is not optimal by any means. It lacks flexibility for nuance, and wouldn't be recommended for EX and beyond, but you'd still be doing most of your potential damage, and who'd even know you were using it anyway? Do I think it's a healthy addition to the game? Not really, but if that system can be a bargaining chip allows the inclusion of more DPS options on each healer since someone who doesn't like that can just set their 1-button combo to their hotbar and use that instead, it's a compromise I'd be glad to make.

[Sebazy]

I am all for giving each job an "Auto Combo" button option that automatically changes to the best GCD attack choice on paper.

This is something I've been all for for the longest time. It's not the perfect solution, but it's a neat bandaid to try and make the problem a little less glaring, pun very much intended.

Genshin's various characters and the manner in which they all chain combos off a single key is the perfect example really. Adding a little flavour to the final attack in the sequence by way of different timing, potential cleaves or such all helps to mix things up a bit.

[ForsakenRoe]

The 'Ring of Timely Strikes', then? Could be a solution of sorts, but I trust SE as far as I can throw them (and that's not very far I'm weak), so I'm confident that they'd draw the wrong conclusion about 'why' its a success (if it is one). Kinda like how they measure BLU's success by 'how many people levelled it', which, bearing in mind it takes a friend and less than 2 hours to get from 1 to max, is not exactly a challenge to accomplish. The fact that the vast majority of those players have not touched BLU in months, and only use it when it gets an update (for like 48h then shelve it for another 2 years), or only use it once a week for the carnivale weeklies, is not considered. Nope, just 'did they reach level cap'

[ty_taurus]

The 'Ring of Timely Strikes', then? Could be a solution of sorts, but I trust SE as far as I can throw them (and that's not very far I'm weak), so I'm confident that they'd draw the wrong conclusion about 'why' its a success (if it is one). Kinda like how they measure BLU's success by 'how many people levelled it', which, bearing in mind it takes a friend and less than 2 hours to get from 1 to max, is not exactly a challenge to accomplish. The fact that the vast majority of those players have not touched BLU in months, and only use it when it gets an update (for like 48h then shelve it for another 2 years), or only use it once a week for the carnivale weeklies, is not considered. Nope, just 'did they reach level cap'

I make a mission to collect all Triple Triad cards, so I'm forced to level BLU