Mentor Status AKA the new Sprouts AKA Burger King Hats

[angienessyo]

I think the mentors are actually teaching the sprouts a very valuable lesson, learn mechanics and don't just follow people or you will die.

[Absimiliard]

I think the mentors are actually teaching the sprouts a very valuable lesson, learn mechanics and don't just follow people or you will die.

[Kolaina]

You literally said everyone should be responsible for their own progress and performance, which would mean mentors should not help them with their progress through the game nor with their performance, so what are mentors helping with then?

You are responsible for your own progress. That doesn’t change.
Mentors can volunteer information, give guidance, whatever. But they are not responsible for you.
People are allowed to seek help. People are able to help, when they want to.
The op states that these mentors are being followed during mechanics, leading to wipes because the mentor was wrong. The mentor is not the “follow me if you want to live” marker the op suggests they should be.

I get you’re trying to pull a “gotcha” which would make your discussing this disingenuous, but you’re reaching for things that aren’t there

[NekoMataMata]

Part of the problem is that players think mentors should be something they aren't. Mentors are simply people that have 1500 commendations, 1000 dungeons, and a level 90 tank, healer and DPS. SE lays out what mentors do:

#1 Provide gameplay advice for new adventurers and other players.
#2 Be an exemplar for player etiquette.
#3 Invite new adventurers to the Novice Network, and answer their queries in the chat channel.

That's all it is. Nowhere does it say mentors have to be 100% perfect in everything. That's a community perception. Mentor status doesn't require any major changes. It serves its purpose. The only thing I could recommend is that mentors need to sometimes execute the "kick from channel" on other mentors for breaking #2. That's what gives mentors a bad reputation, in my opinion.

Players don't come on Novice Network to get answers on how to completely maximize their DPS for raid purposes. That's what discords like The Balance are for. Mentors can give advice on how to get better, but the squabbling in NN over whether it makes more sense to use Chainsaw before Air Anchor for an extra 5 dps is plain silly.

I disagree. The whole system needs to be reworked from the ground up. Not really like how OP suggests, but it needs a change.

Also no one really wants to kick in the NN unless it's bots or whatever, because as it turns out you can have a bunch of mentors collude to kick any mentors offering helpful advice in the NN, but you can't have a mentor kick another mentor that's spamming nsfw feet fetish lines in the chat without a GM talking to you later.

[SannaR]

nowhere in my post did i suggest a parse as in (dps), i could care less for that stuff. i've seen how toxic it can be from different mmo's. i also didn't say the mentors gotta know every mechanic , nor did i say they gotta teach or give advice about the fight/instance. i was suggesting a grading system for mechanics done successfully during the instance and shows you the grade after the duty is complete next to the instance name in duty finder or on the picture template on the right..... Not seeing people flock to wherever the crown is, this is true, most of the time sprouts are just doing sprouts things, which is no biggie. This is just from my experiences, everyone has different experiences, i've seen it multiple times.it gets annoying when it happens. all i said was , for their crown to be turned off automatically for that specific instance that they're not good at, until their personal success rate is up there, not every instance as everyone is assuming. i might've worded it wrong might be the problem.

A Parser does more than tells you how much dps you pumped out though. It will tell you if you took avoidable damage from a mechanic you messed up. Along with if you're over healing or not. It's like what ChrysOCE says who and how does your grade system (which others have suggested before.) quantify a person's performance? They could be having an off night, lag, or be distracted. How do you know a wipe happened due to something they did vs enough of the group didn't know (let's be honest care) how to do a mechanic? How many time do they need to show that yes they know to stack for an Ahk Morn, stand on Bismarck's back in order to do damage, or combine the white and black circles Sophia hands four players. Or that one isn't a damn prime number? Before their grade gets better. Is it per mechanic or that roulette run?

[VelKallor]

If you expect every mentor to know the mechanics of every single dungeon, raid and trial by heart..dont. That is patently idiotic..not to mention impossible.

[DamianFatale]

First and foremost , this post is not meant to come off as elitism or anything of the sorts, just some suggestions to improve the system in place. I find it incredibly annoying wiping multiple times in a row in roulettes cause half or more than half the party, in some cases, are made up of sprouts following the mentor that doesn't actually know the mechanics., when your just trying to get through your dailies. I have no problems helping out sprouts, i enjoy it, the problem is the sprout in disguise (aka Mentor) causing the wipes due to the crown. In order to combat this, i have some suggestions:

1. Add a grade system for each instances.
2. Anyone with a (B+) in said instances crowns will show , Anyone with (B), (B-) in said instances crowns will be turned off as soon they zone in.
3. Don't Make the grades hard to bring back up for the instances in case people fail mechanics multiple times.
4. Grade updates after duty is complete.
5. Make achievements for having all instances (extremes and below) At an (A) - give a title and (A+) - gives a Mount.

I believe this will push players/community to want to do better or strive to be a better player. you get the gist of it, im out. Thank you for coming to my ted talk o/

Just because not all mentors succeed at content doesn't mean that they are bad mentors. This is is a horrible take. A mentors job is to help new players understand the BASIC levels of gameplay that anyone with enough patience can do. Not extremes, not savage, and not ultimate. Yes they can wipe in a dungeon too. It doesn't mean they don't know of mechanics, or how to play the game. A mentor shouldn't have to be a perfect player with no flaws. Stop it with this harmful take, because it hurts the community. If you think this will only hurt mentors, it will hurt new players, because then every mentor would be a hardcore player, and that isn't everyone's playstyle. It shouldn't even be something to aspire to first. Your first goal with playing the game should be to get through basic content, understand how the game works, and progress on your goals slowly, but surely. All the stuff you said isn't of interest for most new players.

[Krotoan]

I believe this will push players/community to want to do better or strive to be a better player. you get the gist of it, im out. Thank you for coming to my ted talk o/

Mentors are simply people who volunteer to be available for assistance. They are not "experts". They are not Paragons. Mentors are there when you want to ask someone something about the game but have no idea where to start to even ask. Ask a mentor. That crown is a "ask me about FFXIV" button and that's it. It's not a certification.

Honestly them linking ANY rewards to the system for the NA game crowd was a bad idea.

[VelKallor]

Mentors have a variety of roles, OP lemme clue you in on something.

Mentors are not employees. I say this because one sprout ACTUALLY said we had to do these instances unsync for them because "we were SE employees"..you can imagine how THAT was received.

They do not need to be "graded".

They do not need to "undergo assessments"

They are VOLUNTEERS.

So, in all truth, your little "system" will simply annoy mentors to the fact they will take the crown off and not bother in future. All you are doing is abusing their goodwill, which can be withdrawn at a moments notice. I have both craft and combat mentor, TBH, the reason I stepped down was what I see in your post, this idea of entitlement that they need to be 'experts" in every single instance. They arent. No one is.

When relying on a volunteer, who is doing this out of no other reason than to help others, you give that volunteer good reason to walk away. You cant stop them. They arent being paid. So, if I were you, Id be careful with that sense of entitlement.

I DEFY YOU to find me one player in all the playerbase that knows the mechanics of each and every fight by heart.

1. Add a grade system for each instance.

No. This is a game not a job and I dont need to be "graded"

2. Anyone with a (B+) in said instances crowns will show , Anyone with (B), (B-) in said instances crowns will be turned off as soon they zone in.

Do we need to submit resumes as well?

3. Don't Make the grades hard to bring back up for the instances in case people fail mechanics multiple times.

No.

4. Grade updates after duty is complete.

No

5. Make achievements for having all instances (extremes and below) At an (A) - give a title and (A+) - gives a Mount.

No.

for their crown to be turned off automatically for that specific instance that they're not good at, until their personal success rate is up there

No.

[VelKallor]

A Parser does more than tells you how much dps you pumped out though. It will tell you if you took avoidable damage from a mechanic you messed up. Along with if you're over healing or not.

Then using one of those IS cheating. If this addon is doing more than numbers, i.e calling out mechanics etc, its playing the game for you and thats cheating.