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  1. #11
    Player
    Khryseis_Astra's Avatar
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    Dec 2019
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    Character
    Khryseis Astra
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by KatiaRelanah View Post
    So at this point, we have to acknowledge that for probably 90%? (number pulled straight out of my ass lol) of the house-d population, based largely on just seeing the general flow of the debate/discussion, have a home either as a furnishing dumping ground, or something cool to show to their friends. At which point... Why do you need a ward for that? If someone visits a ward EXCLUSIVELY to come check out/hang out at your place, what does it matter what the neighbors have as decoration?

    And yes, there\\\\'s SOME people who like, their FC/friend group happened to buy homes all next to each other and they coordinated... Cool, as has been said, keep the wards. But anyone in the larger pool of, at most, "showing off THEIR HOUSE to their friends", it doesn\\\\'t make a difference whether it\\\\'s an isolated instance, or shoved between gaudily-decorated meme homes.

    The only real possible issue I can think of, which doesn\\\\'t seem to be brought up, is what form this would take. Like, is a depopulated (except for the "target" home) ward zone instanced in for the duration? Do you have a home in a black void of nothingness? Do you enter the instance by crossing the gate threshold?

    I guess if I had to wonder aloud about the instancing, it\\\\'s not a criticism/rebuttal per se, but I\\\\'m just genuinely wondering what it even looks like in execution.
    I gave a short answer in my other reply, but basically picture a plot that’s already in the game, exactly as is. Now pick an arbitrary point around the plot, after which, it’s just the background scenery. Any neighboring plots would just be generic scenery, if shown at all. There’s another topic I created where others have made ideas and suggestions as well.
    (0)

  2. #12
    Player Stormpeaks's Avatar
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    Jun 2021
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    Character
    Maya Jcb
    World
    Halicarnassus
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Khryseis_Astra View Post
    I gave a short answer in my other reply, but basically picture a plot that’s already in the game, exactly as is. Now pick an arbitrary point around the plot, after which, it’s just the background scenery. Any neighboring plots would just be generic scenery, if shown at all. There’s another topic I created where others have made ideas and suggestions as well.
    Tbh that sounds absolutely depressing, just thinking of it, a customized house in the middle of an empty ward, or with only generic houses around but knowing there is no one there that owns the house, it's just an "item" in the ward

    Also you are implying instanced housing would even imply the garden part, which it wouldnt, I think you are hoping for way too much from it, you expect a plot of your choice (which is 100% not happening), and also to have a garden ? No way.

    I will repeat it, and I'm not the only one, instanced housing will never happen, larger apartments though ? Probably, and I'd be happy to see it
    (1)

  3. #13
    Player
    Khryseis_Astra's Avatar
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    Dec 2019
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    Khryseis Astra
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormpeaks View Post
    Tbh that sounds absolutely depressing, just thinking of it, a customized house in the middle of an empty ward, or with only generic houses around but knowing there is no one there that owns the house, it's just an "item" in the ward

    Also you are implying instanced housing would even imply the garden part, which it wouldnt, I think you are hoping for way too much from it, you expect a plot of your choice (which is 100% not happening), and also to have a garden ? No way.

    I will repeat it, and I'm not the only one, instanced housing will never happen, larger apartments though ? Probably, and I'd be happy to see it
    The whole ward wouldn’t be there, just the background scenery… I’m sure some would prefer that to some of the housing skins their neighbors use! lol In all seriousness though, I’m not about trying to sway your opinion. I get it. You’re happy with what you’ve got, so you don’t see a need for anything else. To each their own. Other people do see a need for other things, and it’s only natural for us to voice that to a company we’re paying a monthly fee to.

    And yes, when I’m asking for instanced housing, I’m outlining my ideals, what I would want it to look like. I want all the things that ffxiv’s housing does well, put into an instanced system so that everyone can actually have access to that content.
    (2)

  4. #14
    Player
    Jojoya's Avatar
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    Feb 2018
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    9,091
    Character
    Jojoya Joya
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa View Post
    As much as it would suck, yes the limit needs to happen, its part of way we dont have enough houses to begin with. With how this game works, there is no need for one person to own multiple houses, even on different servers, hell there is not even a reason for multiple characters unless you are playing on another data center.
    There are reasons. The question becomes if those reasons are important enough for SE to allow other players to be blocked from also owning because a small percentage of players have multiple houses.

    Keep in mind that taking away houses from players that currently own them does not make houses appear only where needed. Taking away multiple houses owned on Gilgamesh by a single player does not add those houses to Balmung or Mateus, where competition for a house appears to be the greatest. That will always be a problem because SE can't control what worlds players choose to play on, they can only control which worlds players cannot make new characters on or transfer to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa View Post
    That would be the apartments with the different sizes, there is no need for "an instanced house" when you have similar apartments, and yes it would lessen the demand for housing as many just want more internal room.
    There's no need for any housing, there is only player desire for it.

    That doesn't mean that it shouldn't be part of the game. Many players wouldn't end up happy with a space that's interior only, which is part of why apartments don't solve anything except for those who are only looking for a place to store their indoor furnishings. .

    Quote Originally Posted by KatiaRelanah View Post

    I guess if I had to wonder aloud about the instancing, it\\\\'s not a criticism/rebuttal per se, but I\\\\'m just genuinely wondering what it even looks like in execution.
    That would depend on SE.

    If you want to see what is possible with execution, there are other MMORPGs with instanced housing that can offer examples. It doesn't mean SE would copy those systems in part or in full.

    I would love to have RIFT Dimensions in FFXIV, sans the cash shop housing item loot boxes. There were still other ways to get housing items (vendors, creature drops, seasonal events, etc.) but some of the more popular items were only in lootboxes.
    (1)

  5. #15
    Player
    Ayan_Calvesse's Avatar
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    Dec 2021
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    Ayan Calvesse
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Jojoya View Post
    There are reasons. The question becomes if those reasons are important enough for SE to allow other players to be blocked from also owning because a small percentage of players have multiple houses.

    Keep in mind that taking away houses from players that currently own them does not make houses appear only where needed. Taking away multiple houses owned on Gilgamesh by a single player does not add those houses to Balmung or Mateus, where competition for a house appears to be the greatest. That will always be a problem because SE can't control what worlds players choose to play on, they can only control which worlds players cannot make new characters on or transfer to.


    There's no need for any housing, there is only player desire for it.

    That doesn't mean that it shouldn't be part of the game. Many players wouldn't end up happy with a space that's interior only, which is part of why apartments don't solve anything except for those who are only looking for a place to store their indoor furnishings. .


    That would depend on SE.

    If you want to see what is possible with execution, there are other MMORPGs with instanced housing that can offer examples. It doesn't mean SE would copy those systems in part or in full.

    I would love to have RIFT Dimensions in FFXIV, sans the cash shop housing item loot boxes. There were still other ways to get housing items (vendors, creature drops, seasonal events, etc.) but some of the more popular items were only in lootboxes.
    Bolded is direct contradiction - if a player cannot make characters there nor transfer to there then SE does indeed control where you "play" if we are speaking about housing. I also do not see why the failed game RIFT keeps getting brought up if this was such a great idea. The reality is that implementing a instanced housing system would be very costly and likely exploited. I would rather they fix the housing system as is.

    SE has all the information they need to implement a solution - I think the reality is that the instanced crowd really seems to not be acting in good faith as it seems to be a "all or nothing" approach.
    (0)

  6. #16
    Player
    Jojoya's Avatar
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    Jojoya Joya
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    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Ayan_Calvesse View Post
    Bolded is direct contradiction - if a player cannot make characters there nor transfer to there then SE does indeed control where you "play" if we are speaking about housing. I also do not see why the failed game RIFT keeps getting brought up if this was such a great idea. The reality is that implementing a instanced housing system would be very costly and likely exploited. I would rather they fix the housing system as is.

    SE has all the information they need to implement a solution - I think the reality is that the instanced crowd really seems to not be acting in good faith as it seems to be a "all or nothing" approach.
    Perhaps I should have used the word "won't" instead of "can't". They want to encourage players to bring friends and family to play the game with them. Even with world visit/data center travel, there's a bad impression created when the player has to tell the new player "but you can't play on the same world I'm on". So they only lock down worlds when the population gets to be too large compared to the rest. Balmung is our perennial example.

    It's not like the game is only about housing or people choose to play it only because of housing. There is still a significant part of the player base that doesn't engage with housing at all, or at most only engages with their FC's housing. They're not going to make their decisions about Congested status because of housing.

    I bring up RIFT because RIFT's problems had nothing to do with its housing. People can still play RIFT on official servers, even if I wouldn't recommend it because of the company that currently owns the game.

    I could also bring up Wildstar, which truly is a failed game but again it had nothing with their instanced housing. That's the one thing about that game players were happy with.

    ESO - not a failed game. Uses instanced housing close to what RIFT used.

    Your problem is that you keep equating adding an improved instanced housing system to this game as a need to start a housing system from scratch. That is not necessary when we already have a functional housing system. Art assets for creating the instanced location already exist. Housing items already exist. Furnishing placement controls already exist. Ways for players to reach their housing already exists. All that would be needed is for SE is to put those things together so the instanced spaces are larger and more appealing to players.

    Oh look - there's Island Sanctuary. It's an instanced space for every player who finishes 6.0 MSQ. Oh look, there's SE working on adding the ability for players to place outdoor furnishings in their Sanctuary. Once that's completed, it shouldn't be difficult to add a way to place indoor furnishings.

    Hey, we're scheduled to get a second Island in 6.4 or 6.5. That hopefully means new art assets for our personal instances.
    (Varshahn does tell us in optional dialog available after starting the post 6.0 MSQ that he wished he knew we had experience running an island because he's got islands also in need of management. He wants to talk to us later about that - hint of what our next island will be?


    I'm not sure what you're referring to when you claim instanced housing could be exploited. Do you mean getting multiple houses? Well guess what - RIFT and ESO players are able to get multiple instanced housing locations per character. Instanced housing is not persistent like the wards are so it's not a problem. The player wants to go into one of their instanced housing locations - the instance opens and loads their housing assets. They want to move to another? The new one opens so they can go in then the current one closes when they leave.

    Instanced housing is not an all or nothing approach. We've said multiple times that both ward housing and instanced housing can co-exist. It's the ward proponents that are not acting in good faith, trying to claim that it's "all or nothing". Instanced housing already exists in the wards via apartments. They already co-exist. What we're asking is that instanced housing be improved to go beyond a simple apartment. Will it take some effort on SE part? Yes. Will it be the problematic mess you claim? No. The game already has what's needed to make it happen. Ever notice those long paths in Goblet and Lavender Beds that lead absolutely nowhere? Examples of good places to add the entry points for instanced estates just as players walk to the apartment building door to select to enter their apartment or another player apartment.

    How much experience have you actually had with instanced housing and in what games that makes you hate the idea so much?
    (3)

  7. #17
    Player
    Sindele's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    491
    Character
    Sindele Actoria
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 96
    Categorizing an entire group of people as 'not acting in good faith' when you're dealing with, like, the same two-three posters is usually the first sign that an argument has departed the realm of reasonable behavior. In any event, we've taken less than two pages to prove the topic title entirely wrong and demonstrate how no solution will ever be enough for everyone! We're getting faster at this.
    (1)

  8. #18
    Player
    DamianFatale's Avatar
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    May 2015
    Location
    Ishgard
    Posts
    3,089
    Character
    Arctura Fengari
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa View Post
    I keep seeing people argue about housing, and want it one way or another without thing about others and what they want...
    We have to accept that we cant have everything we want, and some things have to be changed or sacrificed to get another.
    Full on instanced housing is not going to happen, but this would be a decent compromise.

    -Leave neighborhood housing the way it is right now.
    -add medium and large apartments to the apartment housing*
    -Limit house ownership to 1 house per FC/account per Data Center (one account can own a house as an FC leader, and a house as personal)**
    -add a small 2x2 inside gardening housing item. (if that can even be done)
    -add choices to the layout of the house, nothing crazy, just a "mirror" option (so small house with stairs on left side)
    -Allow FCs to choose where to place the door for members rooms


    *Note on apartments:
    Small: same as it is now
    Medium: same as a small house
    Large: two floors equal to a large house (instead of a med house's three floors)


    **Note on ownership changes:
    When changes are made, send out emails to all effected accounts, that they must reply with what house they want to keep with location/server. All other houses will be demolished, released and owners will be refunded 80% of the value to the characters connected to them.
    These are all great ideas. I would also continue to add new residential districts, and of course add instanced housing to the Island Sanctuary. This would alleviate all problems. This way everyone has the chance to earn a house, but also get a house in a ward, as well as your ideas which would make apartments even more useful.
    (0)

  9. #19
    Player
    Xelanar's Avatar
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    Dec 2015
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    Character
    Xelanar Fhey
    World
    Shiva
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    Dancer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa View Post
    With how this game works, there is no need for one person to own multiple houses, even on different servers, hell there is not even a reason for multiple characters unless you are playing on another data center.
    There is a need for both of those.
    People who like decorating cannot do with just one house. They COULD, if instanced housing was a thing, because it would allow for saving and loading interior designs at-will. But as of now owning multiple houses and having multiple characters is the only option. Even if someone were to go for it with just a single house, they would run out of inventory space to store furnishings very quickly.

    Now I'm not stating how I feel about this, or what my thoughs are, so please do not take my comment as me saying I'm in favor of people being able to own multiple houses, while others have 0. But it felt necessary to highlight how "The solution is honestly not as complicated as some think it is" is only true, if you decide to ignore or trample on other people to enforce stricter rules. Which IS a possibility - but none I would personally agree with or even recommend.


    There is also many reasons for having multiple characters, but I won't go into those to stay on topic.
    (0)

  10. #20
    Player Stormpeaks's Avatar
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    Maya Jcb
    World
    Halicarnassus
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Xelanar View Post
    There is a need for both of those.
    People who like decorating cannot do with just one house. They COULD, if instanced housing was a thing, because it would allow for saving and loading interior designs at-will. But as of now owning multiple houses and having multiple characters is the only option. Even if someone were to go for it with just a single house, they would run out of inventory space to store furnishings very quickly.

    Now I'm not stating how I feel about this, or what my thoughs are, so please do not take my comment as me saying I'm in favor of people being able to own multiple houses, while others have 0. But it felt necessary to highlight how "The solution is honestly not as complicated as some think it is" is only true, if you decide to ignore or trample on other people to enforce stricter rules. Which IS a possibility - but none I would personally agree with or even recommend.


    There is also many reasons for having multiple characters, but I won't go into those to stay on topic.
    That's basically it really, it actually isnt as easy as op makes it seem like.

    Lets say player A has a few venues, just a random number, 3-4 on their account, 1 house for submarines, 1 personal fc.

    You are going to force that player to choose between their venues, their submarines or their personal fc, I'm not sure how that's fair, as I mentioned it earlier in this thread, that rule is fine, but it cant happen for past plot purchases, only in the future, and even then, its a stupid rule in itself, removing houses from multiowners wont all of a sudden give houses to everyone, that's ridiculous, the houses that will free up will be taken in a round or two at most, and then what ? Who do we hunt next ? People that dont decorate their houses ? Should they lose their houses too ? Or maybe those that dont log in daily, maybe if they dont log in a 3 days time limit their house should auto demolish ? Or maybe even people that dont do content, maybe if they dont complete savage they'll lose their houses too ?

    The point is that, this constant hunt to try and take stuff away from people because some people think they are owed a house, simply because they play the game, and that it's their "right" to have one, is getting ridiculous.
    (2)

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