Normal/Savage Raids should be one big raid

[Lieri]

Trash mobs in a raid is a big no, especially if they respawn

[TaleraRistain]

I think we have a good setup now. 8 man is closer to a trial, 24 man has some in-between mobs and then bosses so it's a good balance.

I cut my raiding teeth breaking into Plane of Fear or Plane of Hate and it was fun for a time but that sort of thing can drag on eventually. It's possible to engage with that side more informally in this game and I find that rather appealing.

But they did have things like DRS that seemed well received so maybe don't modify the current setup for 8 and 24 man and instead focus on adding more options like that. I think that would be a fair compromise.

[SerMicha]

I just want modern normal raids to be more similar to the Alex normal raids. I'm not really a fan of the linear dungeons in this game, but even a hallway leading between areas/boss arenas would be better than just spawning into a completely disconnected boss room then teleporting out at the end. I'd like to see more Fausts tbh. Doesn't have to be Coils difficulty, and let's be real, it's normal mode content so it will probably be over in less than 15 minutes anyway, so players with time constraints won't really be impacted.

Savage can just stay as spawning into the boss room. It's at least a bit easier to believe seeing as the WOL has already been there.

[Vyrerus]

People would have no problem with trash if killing the trash rewarded you and didn't respawn.

Problem is, SE doesn't wanna do that. Not even for accessories.

Honestly, they could probably add a fifth fight that gives the illusion of travel. Like imagine a fight where you're on a platform moving or you just have to move along, and fight through tons of trash packs with problem monsters here or there. Maybe it goes on for 10 minutes. At the end, you get accessories, and access to the 4 floors of fights. Which are still separate instances, but they are inside of something the same like how Alexander and Coil were.

The thing I've liked least about raiding is that the platforms have been free floating and in wildly different places or empty space for ages now. I'd rather raids took place in at least the same structure. Pandaemonium has been somewhat like that, but we still teleport into every room, and it still feels disjointed.

I think the call to have trash is more a call to have a connected raid dungeon that all feels like the same place, at the very least, even if it would be impractical for it all to be seamless same instance.

[xxmiamorecadenza]

Basically an 8 man Savage Alliance Raid?

Um. Yes, pls.

[Amenara]

I think the current idea with savage/normal raids being just a boss fight is fine, as it allows you to focus on the important thing which is the boss and skips the boring parts which would be the trash kills in between. If SE could come up with new ideas to make trash interesting, I'd rather see that implemented in dungeons or alliance raids rather than decide to add more time to completing the 8 person raids.

I'd also rather see SE put that effort into making the alliance raids more engaging and make them feel connected with one another through more than there being a storyline. I think there could be a lot more thought involved in the raids other than do a couple trash pulls between bosses because reasons with little thought beyond aoe down the mobs and stay out of bad, which I suppose could apply to dungeons as well. I would also like if the bosses were more dense with the mechanics and were shorter individual fights with just more bosses per alliance raid tier.

[Saraide]

I would rather keep savage raids the way they are on a structural level but I wouldnt say no to SE trying stuff like delubrum again (although i would prefer it without the lost action economy).

[Atelier-Bagur]

I just dont necessarily agree with just annexing mobs in these raids. To me this almost sounds like "lets just get rid of mobs in dungeons, and be just straight bosses". That would be extremely boring. Im all for making the trash mobs at least more engaging and interesting but they would also need to overhaul the combat to be more fun for it to work imo

[Xirean]

I just dont necessarily agree with just annexing mobs in these raids. To me this almost sounds like "lets just get rid of mobs in dungeons, and be just straight bosses". That would be extremely boring. Im all for making the trash mobs at least more engaging and interesting but they would also need to overhaul the combat to be more fun for it to work imo

Mobs currently are often more dangerous than bosses so I actually wouldn't want to see them go in dungeons. Although that would remove the current struggle between multi pull vs single pull expectations. As far as wanting mobs out of raids though it's more about they don't really serve a purpose. The bosses give rewards and the mobs don't. In a dungeon/alliance the mobs serve as a sort of break from the mechanically heavier bosses which is somewhat nice. The structure of dungeons isn't really something I think needs to be added to raids.

[Payadopa]

I very much appreciate raids being just the juice bits: the boss fights. Criterion has confirmed this for me aswell. The trash mobs there are by far the least interesting part of criterion. The bosses being seperated also allows for each of them to be longer and more designed (in theory).

I agree with the trash in general but I disagree with Criterion mobs being trash. They hit harder than all bosses in ARR combined and are not garbage. If anything those monsters should be in every dungeon (albeit less vicious).