BLM DPS

[CelestiCer]

Is this one of those threads where people have literally no clue how to read rDPS charts again? *sigh*

The OP seems genuinely curious. The other poster however is one of those " Spend less time on the Forums, more time Practicing your Job " self-made-victim.

What I still wanna know... is if they reached top percentile BLM performances to even complain about the lack of DPS differences they harp on in w/e content they seem to not be mentioning doing. It's not even about BLM performance variance that be different. They keep talking about the top percentile with generalized canned arguments as I assume a spectator on the sidelines and willingly misunderstanding every explanation every poster gives while insulting multiple of them back instead of tackling the argument points. Borderline Trolling. There's a good reason... No-BS, why BLM mains complain the least out of any other DPS job for a very-very long time...

" Players need to spend more time improving in-game vs complaining about none-existing lack of performance issues their Job supposedly does on the Forums " - and I mean that... in the nicest way possible. I been there myself, bi***ing about my lack of DPS and performance as a new player thinking it's my Job's fault and pointing my finger at the top of some dumb charts I never even reached. Just Stop...

[Ggwppino]

Pure DPS in Savage




DPS considering buff in Savage



This is the general graph considering any percentile, but each individual raid can vary just a bit. We get nowhere if we don't look at the same data

Personally I prefer to look at the percentiles from the 90th because the higher it is, the closer you get to the maximum mathematical limit in DPS output of a given class, but let's take the most general data possible.

[Mikey_R]

Why should it not? What is the point of a class being a selfish dps if it does not bring the most dps possible? You may as well not even call it that. SAM is selfish dps-- BLM and MCH are just selfish (in cases where they do not compete with SAM).

Stop comparing it to SAM, the 2 have different DPS balancing requirements.

Being a selfish DPS is just that it provides no DPS utility, and therefore the highest DPS, WITHIN THE DPS ROLE THEY ARE TRING TO FILL. This is the thing you keep glossing over and pretend it doesn't matter, when it does.

[Semirhage]

Stop comparing it to SAM, the 2 have different DPS balancing requirements.

Being a selfish DPS is just that it provides no DPS utility, and therefore the highest DPS, WITHIN THE DPS ROLE THEY ARE TRING TO FILL. This is the thing you keep glossing over and pretend it doesn't matter, when it does.

Okay. So why do melee categorically do way more damage than ranged or casters? Just their role to be stronger, nothing to be done about it? Welcome to Meleewalker I guess.

[Mikey_R]

Okay. So why do melee categorically do way more damage than ranged or casters? Just their role to be stronger, nothing to be done about it? Welcome to Meleewalker I guess.

Because, in the past, melee had less uptime, and so to compensate, they had higher damage.

The fact fight design has shifted so that melees basically have full uptime, just like every other job, is a more recent change, of which I have acknowledged, if fight design stays as it is, then all jobs need to be looked at, not just BLM. However, until such a time, it is still based on the older balancing model.

[Turtledeluxe]

Because, in the past, melee had less uptime, and so to compensate, they had higher damage.

The fact fight design has shifted so that melees basically have full uptime, just like every other job, is a more recent change, of which I have acknowledged, if fight design stays as it is, then all jobs need to be looked at, not just BLM. However, until such a time, it is still based on the older balancing model.

Yes and as I keep saying if that it what it takes to make the game make sense, then it should be done. I'm not strictly calling for BLM to dominate or for SAM to be rendered useless. I think the philosophy of selfish dps should be consistent. This is healthy as well because to your point, players who prioritize high dps when making characters will pick the best class. But why incentivize consolidation into a single class when it could be a diverse set of gameplay styles?

And just to be clear the reason you cannot apply it to just any class is because (at least it should be in theory ) that said other classes bring some kind of other utility to fight even within the context of being a DPS. You say DPS is king but imo if you look at the data it tells us ease of DPS and utility are king.

[Turtledeluxe]

Pure DPS in Savage




DPS considering buff in Savage



This is the general graph considering any percentile, but each individual raid can vary just a bit. We get nowhere if we don't look at the same data

Personally I prefer to look at the percentiles from the 90th because the higher it is, the closer you get to the maximum mathematical limit in DPS output of a given class, but let's take the most general data possible.

Yes this is older data after a fight has been well tested and established and I noticed more classes get utilized and perform better than fresh difficult content. So imo this is showing us that there is a meta that gets used for a chunk of content life cycle particularly where prog is a priority. I'm not saying it's the end of the world, I'm also not sure why we can't just admit that.

[Shiroe]

for heavy movement, Blm has tools.., but it it generally still is a dos lose (unlike Smn), unless they can use Tripplecast.., butthey can't always use Trpplecast

=> Blm usally lose dps, when there is movement (even if they can keep uptime), since it ruins their F4 rota (throwing in fire- & thunder-procs, or Xenos.., unless its in the perfect moment of the rotation)

... Omega protocol, P1 loop, blm are bad there, they struggle and end up with only ok-ish, as they need to save Tripplecast for panto
...

a 3rd Tripplecast could fix Blm a bit (if a 3rd is not being taken into account from devs for long movement, like panto needs 2x Tripplecasts,)

since with Tripplecast, Blm don't lose dps, but with other movement tools they usually do, umless lucky with the timing and only for very short movement

=> don't buff blm, give Blm a 3rd Tripplecast (just don't make mechanics, that need 3x tripplecasts)

(but than, would Blm be too mobile / simple?)

[Ransu]

for heavy movement, Blm has tools.., but it it generally still is a dos lose (unlike Smn), unless they can use Tripplecast.., butthey can't always use Trpplecast

=> Blm usally lose dps, when there is movement (even if they can keep uptime), since it ruins their F4 rota (throwing in fire- & thunder-procs, or Xenos.., unless its in the perfect moment of the rotation)

... Omega protocol, P1 loop, blm are bad there, they struggle and end up with only ok-ish, as they need to save Tripplecast for panto
...

a 3rd Tripplecast could fix Blm a bit (if a 3rd is not being taken into account from devs for long movement, like panto needs 2x Tripplecasts,)

since with Tripplecast, Blm don't lose dps, but with other movement tools they usually do, umless lucky with the timing and only for very short movement

=> don't buff blm, give Blm a 3rd Tripplecast (just don't make mechanics, that need 3x tripplecasts)

(but than, would Blm be too mobile / simple?)

P7S with the back and forth on the two platforms to drop circles had me pulling my hair out lmao. I was practically begging for a third triplecast.

[Mikey_R]

I think the philosophy of selfish dps should be consistent.

It IS consistent. BLM, being the selfish DPS caster, has the highest DPS of the casters. Sam has the highest for melee and MCH has the highest for physical ranged. The only issue you have is that BLM isn't topping the charts like SAM, but in order to do that, you have to ignore any balancing concerns that will arise. But, you don't care about that, because all you care about is the fact numbers aren't the same.

This is the same shallow view on DPS metrics that lead to topics like this. Numbers low, therefore bad, whilst ignoring everything else that comes together to determine how to balance the DPS of a job, which again, is not an easy thing.