FFXIV Job Design Feedback

[Frodnoxx]

So much of this thread is echoing what I think to myself all the time about how this games pve could improve. It makes me sad that the devs will more than likely ignore all of it.

I still vivid remember YoshiP in the 6.0 live letter combat changes section saying "I know many of you wanted things from previous expansions but we are going to continue what we did in ShB" I didn't realize how much of a "you think you do but you don't" moment that was. It's really ironic considering that wow players left because the devs weren't listening to them and making the same tone deaf decisions over and over. And now here we are again except this time they don't even respond or pretend to pay attention to feedback.

[ForsakenRoe]

I still vivid remember YoshiP in the 6.0 live letter combat changes section saying "I know many of you wanted things from previous expansions but we are going to continue what we did in ShB" I didn't realize how much of a "you think you do but you don't" moment that was.

I never realized how accurate that is until I read it just now, we asked 'can we have class design with skill ceilings like 3.0' and got told 'you think you want it but you don't'. I want to know, who is this SHB/EW choice FOR? It's not the hardcore players, because they're the ones complaining about how stale it is. It's not the casuals, because they wouldn't even notice a higher skill ceiling, being as they don't do the content that asks them to strive for that ceiling. I can only assume the design is being done for the devs, to make balancing easier. But the balance is still a mess, as ever, because some jobs are better than others. So what, we remove even more gameplay differences, to make it easier to balance stuff again? And we end up in the same place again next time, stuff still can't be balanced even with a lobotomized class design? Healers are already bordering on having one button to press for damage, and they're still not balanced because Yoshi and co seem to have completely missed the memo, that you cannot attain perfect balance when you compare 'class with raidbuffs' vs 'class without raidbuffs'.

Blizzard said 'you think you want it, but you don't', because people kept asking them for Vanilla WOW servers. Turns out, they did indeed want it, and the Classic servers were a massive financial success. So, when's Yoshi going to realize that actually, yes, we do want design to lean more towards previous expansions? Personally I don't necessarily even want 3.0, HW had some jank that I'd rather not have back, like INT Down, the Storms Path 10% damage reduction debuff, the Slash/Piercing/Blunt resistances. If anything, I'd argue that 'yes, you ruled out 3.0, fine whatever, but you (Yoshi and SE) didn't rule out 4.0, so lets do that'. A lot of the classes would say SB was the best time for the class designs, so going back to something like that would be the compromise with the devs. If they screw up the balance as bad as Abyssos, with this 'much easier to balance' class design, why should we go along with their plans when they say 'trust us we'll keep doing it this way and it'll work out'? It HASN'T worked out and we have the evidence to prove it. Stop doubling down on mistakes, and change course before the damage becomes too much to salvage

[Amenara]

I never realized how accurate that is until I read it just now, we asked 'can we have class design with skill ceilings like 3.0' and got told 'you think you want it but you don't'. I want to know, who is this SHB/EW choice FOR? It's not the hardcore players, because they're the ones complaining about how stale it is. It's not the casuals, because they wouldn't even notice a higher skill ceiling, being as they don't do the content that asks them to strive for that ceiling. I can only assume the design is being done for the devs, to make balancing easier. But the balance is still a mess, as ever, because some jobs are better than others. So what, we remove even more gameplay differences, to make it easier to balance stuff again? And we end up in the same place again next time, stuff still can't be balanced even with a lobotomized class design? Healers are already bordering on having one button to press for damage, and they're still not balanced because Yoshi and co seem to have completely missed the memo, that you cannot attain perfect blaance when you compare 'class with raidbuffs' vs 'class without raidbuffs'.

Blizzard said 'you think you want it, but you don't', because people kept asking them for Vanilla WOW servers. Turns out, they did indeed want it, and the Classic servers were a massive financial success. So, when's Yoshi going to realize that actually, yes, we do want design to lean more towards previous expansions? Personally I don't necessarily even want 3.0, HW had some jank that I'd rather not have back, like INT Down, the Storms Path 10% damage reduction debuff, the Slash/Piercing/Blunt resistances. If anything, I'd argue that 'yes, you ruled out 3.0, fine whatever, but you (Yoshi and SE) didn't rule out 4.0, so lets do that'. A lot of the classes would say SB was the best time for the class designs, so going back to something like that would be the compromise with the devs. If they screw up the balance as bad as Abyssos, with this 'much easier to balance' class design, why should we go along with their plans when they say 'trust us we'll keep doing it this way and it'll work out'? It HASN'T worked out and we have the evidence to prove it. Stop doubling down on mistakes, and change course before the damage becomes too much to salvage

I think it's 100% for the job design team to make it easier to balance and design towards. Last we knew there were only 4 dedicated devs credited for battle design and I can only imagine if they didn't hire more it will only get harder as they try and balance and design all the current jobs plus have more jobs put on their plate with every expansion. With everything on a two minute rotation it makes it a lot easier to come up with new jobs as the central basis behind their rotation is already set and now they just need to figure out a way to accomplish it or a theme to work towards with the job. Honestly, I want them to do a complete revamp of jobs but I don't think they have the personnel to do it, so I imagine we will get the same as we got with EW and ShB.

[VentVanitas]

So much of this thread is echoing what I think to myself all the time about how this games pve could improve. It makes me sad that the devs will more than likely ignore all of it.

I still vivid remember YoshiP in the 6.0 live letter combat changes section saying "I know many of you wanted things from previous expansions but we are going to continue what we did in ShB" I didn't realize how much of a "you think you do but you don't" moment that was. It's really ironic considering that wow players left because the devs weren't listening to them and making the same tone deaf decisions over and over. And now here we are again except this time they don't even respond or pretend to pay attention to feedback.

I still think about the DrakGamestein interview with Yoshi P and how he brought up the issues of MNK's Chakra to the man himself to which he understood it as a problem and even thought of how he could hypothetically solve it. Did it actually amount to anything? Nope. Chakra remained exactly how it was in the media tour build of EW.

I get it, Yoshi P is a very busy man and it's very well possible that he may have simply forgot or the suggestion was lost in a long chain of other problems he and his team had to prioritize. However, the whole point of these media tour interviews was to get feedback, so it doesn't really fill me with confidence if suggestions can simply be lost/forgotten or dropped entirely with no warning.