FFXIV Job Design Feedback

[Shinkuno]

It COULD, but unlikely since there are other Jobs that are consistently ragged on as being REALLY bad AND that people who played the older versions hate aside from SMN that are getting oddly high marks.

Another curiosity to me is that WHM is the second lowest healer and under 5.0 now (after it was discussed how they weren't), but is arguably the best shape it's been in for the game's entire history (if you didn't love Cleric), and has either the most engaging, or second most engaging, GCD rotation (vying for the position with SGE), yet is rated so much lower for...reasons?

I dunno, there's some things that don't add up well. /shrug That's all I'm saying.

Also: This isn't the Healer forum, you can save your dogpile for there.

You sound like a main healer that cant accept his role is the worst designed healer role in probably the whole mmo genre

[Renathras]

You sound like a main healer that cant accept his role is the worst designed healer role in probably the whole mmo genre

I'm not interested in getting in a tit for tat, and this is General, not Healer subform, so I'd advise against ad hominems in lieu of arguments.

I'm pointing out issues, that's all. Besides, when we started this (the long form survey first), even Ty noted that the results would be biased, particularly against healers. So I'm not pointing out something we didn't already agree was likely.

In fact, if I recall correctly, HE was the one that pointed it out in the first place...

EDIT: Oh, and don't state subjective opinions as fact. They aren't "worst designed" just because you don't like them. Their design is fine, the encounter designs have issues, though, in breaking down the trinity system as a whole...

WHM, for example, is one of the best designed Healers in MMOs IF you like to heal. The encounter design sucks for it since it doesn't really lean into healing, much, though. Now, if you like to damage? Yeah, FFXIV's Healers are all pretty badly designed for that. But that's why we have DPS Jobs, I guess? But WHM nails the fantasy of having powerful and efficient heals to keep your party alive. Put FFXIV's EW WHM into, for example, WoW's 4.1 Troll dungeons (the ones that caused a lot of healers in WoW to quit), for example, for a pretty solid time. Conclusion is: The Healer design isn't bad, much less "worst". But FFXIV's encounter design is becoming problematic with it breaking down the trinity to the point of obsolescence.

Then again they also used to just call the rest Ranged DPS and separate them into 2 subtypes.

Until ShB, I think it was, they only called the Jobs Tank, Healer, and DPS. They didn't split the DPS until ShB, seemingly so they could justify adding DNC. When they first said "We need another 'Ranged Physical DPS'", a lot of the community was confused because they had never made that distinction before and it wasn't listed in the game as distinct.

It’s true that what constitutes as a minor or major rework may differ depending on who you ask, but in general, a “rework” in games defines a fundamental shift in the play style of a class or character. As Roe stated, that does not mean literally nothing is added or removed, because that is never the case. Every expansion, every job is required to include new abilities because if they don’t, there is a fear of backlash.

No rework was meant to imply a normal amount of new actions, and maybe some subtle cleaning up of existing tools. For example, I do not think the removal of Shadowbringers Fluid Aura constitutes as a rework, and I imagine most people would agree. But I think we’re getting in the weeds over the semantics. The point of that question was to see how people felt about how each job’s gameplay feels.

No rework = this job has good gameplay and nothing specific is needed.

Minor rework = there is some clunkiness that needs to be ironed out, but otherwise the job is good.

Major rework = the job has a good concept, but does not feel fun/satisfying/rewarding to play and/or is not functioning properly.

Overhaul = The job is completely failing to deliver on its design and/or job fantasy and needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.

I wanted to keep each answer short and clear though, which is why I didn’t try to add that much detail to each response option. If it’s too long wordy, it may have gotten ignored.

I feel like that probably SHOULD have been in the original. I would have said No Rework instead of Minor Rework in several cases.