FFXIV Job Design Feedback

[Renathras]

Taking "Most people rate WHM a 5/10" to mean "WHM is enjoyable as-is!" is an...interpretation.

Start by learning statistics. An average rating of 5/10 isn't "most people rate". It's an average of all ratings. If you'd like, I can explain the difference between average, median, mode, bi-modal, and tri-modal to you?

Also, where did I say "WHM is enjoyable as-is!"? I swear, if you spent less time making up things I didn't say and only addressing the things I said, we MIGHT even get along!

My point was, of the Healers, SGE is actually moderately well regarded and that a majority of WHM responses seem to be people saying post-SB WHM is what they want, generally with just a minor tweak like returning Aero 3 to them. Contrast with SCH and AST, both of which STRONGLY want the pre-ShB versions of their Jobs back, and AST in particular where everyone wants a rework.

[ForsakenRoe]

When I interpret the results, all of the results show a majority of "no rework" for healers.

Could you explain cos I'm confused, when I look, 'no rework' is the smallest chunk of the chart for each of the healers (it doesn't even appear on the AST one), so I'm maybe misunderstanding what you mean by it being 'the majority'. Unless you meant the opposite, that the majority say 'we need at least something to change for healer X'

It's basically the one thing I harp on too. That and that I would like more mobility options and maybe something a little more exciting than Spineshatter Dive as an oGCD.

But yeah, it's mainly just Dragon Sight, lol.

While back I suggested somewhere that maybe they could just merge DragonSight as a bonus effect on Litany, since you pop both at 2min anyway. Rather than 10% crit and a seperate 'you and your ally get 5% damage', it'd be more like, idk, 10% crit and 2-3% damage for all, with some potency adjustments to rebalance it. I also would suggest merging Spineshatter with Dragonfire Dive (it upgrades at 50) because I'd argue DFD really sucks too in terms of impact. A 2min OGCD that does 400p, wow, meanwhile GNB gets 350p on a 30s CD, later upgrading to like 800p (Blasting Zone). Or Bow Shock being 650p over it's full duration, on a 1min CD. So yeh, make DFD a 1min CD that replaces Spineshatter, move the potency from SS to DFD to compensate for the loss as needed, and have DFD get the 2 charge trait instead.

Also make Stardiver either way faster to avoid clipping, or potentially make it a GCD with a ridiculous potency (this would be potentially interesting because we could LifeSurge it to guarantee it crits). If it stays OGCD though, they can remove Life Surge.

edit: oh and since people posting doesn't appear in real time and the post appeared after I posted:

Start by learning statistics. An average rating of 5/10 isn't "most people rate". It's an average of all ratings. If you'd like, I can explain the difference between average, median, mode, bi-modal, and tri-modal to you?

Condescension aside, the mode is 'the value that occurs the most often in a dataset'



So... 5/10. At least, in 'challenging content', it is. In anything else, it's a sad looking 1/10. And if you want to look at the median instead, well, that also goes no higher than a 5. So I'd say Semi's assessment, as bluntly worded as it was, is fair

@Ty, btw I just saw something 'odd', WHM's Modes are 1 1 5, SCH's are 1 1 7. WHM's 'total' is 5, SCH's is 1. Is that intended or is the formula for that cell borked (same with SGE maybe) (thank you again though and sorry I just have an eye for stuff that looks like typo's)

[ty_taurus]

On my phone atm, when I get to my computer I’ll see if there’s an error on the formulas.

@Ty, btw I just saw something 'odd', WHM's Modes are 1 1 5, SCH's are 1 1 7. WHM's 'total' is 5, SCH's is 1. Is that intended or is the formula for that cell borked (same with SGE maybe) (thank you again though and sorry I just have an eye for stuff that looks like typo's)

Are you referring to the overall ratings when you say "total"? The overall rating was for the "how would you rate [insert job here] overall" so those are the modes of that question, not a collected value of the solo/casual/challenging scores. Does that resolve your confusion or am I misunderstanding your concern?

[ForsakenRoe]

I considered editing my post to say 'unless you meant 'well actually 5/10 only happens 14 times, compared to all of the non-5/10 results that total 100something' but then I decided against it, because it makes so little sense to use as a line of reasoning. And yeh I used 'challenging content' numbers because they were the higher satisfaction levels. Not dragged down, as it were, thinking that if those indicate 5/10 and they're the best possible showing, then that's pretty damning

As for rework/majority, I guess my whole argument falls apart because I was wrong about WHM's 'no rework' chunk being the smallest, gg, what the hell was I looking at then, maybe I had one of the other sheets open and got them mixed up. Anyway, I'd call whichever has the larger percentage 'the majority' even if it's not over 50%. Else you'll never have any definitive 'answer' without having to band groups together. An then there'd be disputes over whether Mini goes with No, or Mini with Major, or if Total Overhaul is too extreme for Major to align with and etc. It's like politics, cos just like politics, people cast their votes, nothing gets done, repeat

If you wanted to group stuff up based on how much they align, there'd be three bandings, no rework (people who want zero change), mini rework (people who want a bit of a change) and then major/total as a group (because they want big change). I'd expect that most of the people who want a total overhaul would grumble a bit but ultimately accept a 'major rework'. I had put 'total overhaul' for WHM. If it got 'a rework on the level of DRK in 5.0' (and it was targeted at the issues the class has, not 'we added 6 more healing tools') I'd be like 'well at least they did something to try and fix it' and move on, I think. And in that regard, WHM would then be about 40% for a big change, and about 38% for a small change. So clearly, the answer is to leave it as is, maybe add another healing GCD like Cure 4 (sarcasm). Even if we don't group anything though, just settling on 'the biggest number wins' like FPTP, 'no rework' still isn't winning any seats. Alternatively, we could take the 'median' and cancel out the most extreme view from each side over and over until we're left with 'the guy in the middle', which by the looks of it would be 'Mini, but on the side that is slightly more towards Major', which I assume means that instead of 2 extra GCDs to the DPS rotation, we'd get 2 and a 60s selfbuff or something

Are you referring to the overall ratings when you say "total"? The overall rating was for the "how would you rate [insert job here] overall" so those are the modes of that question, not a collected value of the solo/casual/challenging scores. Does that resolve your confusion or am I misunderstanding your concern?

Yeh, I had just done something quite stressful in a different game and adrenaline was up, so brainfog set in and thinking turned off. I got it now, just wish I could work out why I thought that was the way to interpret that, the joys of neurodivergence I guess, sometimes you make yourself look like an idiot (like that), sometimes you... still look like an idiot, but you did a flip while doing it so at least it was entertaining. This blunder, there was no flip, it was just disappointing

Oh yeh and, in a shocking turn of events, I actually agree with Ren that having 5.5 be the average is a little bit odd. Solution is, next time you run one of these, give people the option to vote 0/10. It'd be interesting to see how many of those 1 ratings are actually 0's in disguise