FFXIV Job Design Feedback

[RyuDragnier]

Who can sincerely say that skyrim's great? Even in the same series morrowind is far superior as an open world game.

Hell, even Oblivion is superior as an open world game in that same franchise. Skyrim's a pretty bad Elder Scrolls game.

[VentVanitas]

Hell, even Oblivion is superior as an open world game in that same franchise. Skyrim's a pretty bad Elder Scrolls game.

It's actually kind of interesting to compare XIV and Skyrim side by side, because criticisms for both games have a lot more similarities than you'd think considering they're both RPGs that wanted to get a wider audience by becoming more *accessible (read: simple).

As an example, like how the egregious simplification of Elder Scroll's combat turned all encounters into "stealth archer or bust" specifically so you could avoid how bad melee and magic combat is in Skyrim. Also the removal of a lot of mechanics which felt defining for the franchise like spellcrafting from Morrowind/Oblivion or the consolidation of a lot of unique builds/classes leaving only mage, melee and archery. I think I don't need to explain how this one aligns with XIV lol.

[RitsukoSonoda]

Who can sincerely say that skyrim's great? Even in the same series morrowind is far superior as an open world game.

Blue mage stands as the only good job, presumably its inability to turn in msq is to avoid saddling the player with up to an 80 level grind when BLU hits the level cap.

Skyrim is great... After I install around 500 user made mods into it... >.>

[ItsUrBoi]

Seeing how for Dark Knight most people ( 90%!!! ) ask for either a mini rework or a full rework, here are some ideas for the tank problem child:

->Dark Mind grants 10% damage. At level 82, upgrades to Oblation, granting an additional 20% magic damage mitigation.

->Dark Missionary should be obtained at level 66.

->Carve and Spit / Abyssal Drain moved to be GCDs with 20 sec CDs.

->Bloodspiller combos into 2 more actions, part of a combo, each action costing 15 blood.

->Living Shadow increases Darkside's damage bonus to 25% for 20 seconds. Fray merges with you giving you an enshroud like effect but suited to DRK fantasy.

->Delirium grants the Delirium buff for 10 seconds. During this time Darkside cannot be obtained from Edge/Flood of Shadow, they instead increase the bloodgauge by 20!

->Quietus removed. Bloodspiller combo can have AoE fall-off.

->To replace Quietus and Dark Mind merged into Oblation you can gain Blood price and Sole Survivor.

->Blood price: When around more than 2 enemies, getting hit increases the Bloodgauge. Should be obtained in Stormblood.

->Sole Survivor: Marks target for execution. If target is killed, gain HP and MP. If target survives, gain only HP. Should be obtained in Endwalker for sustain purposes.

->Salted earth gives a regeneration effect while standing inside it. Salt and Darkness heals the DRK instantly.

Idea of mini rework:
Minimize the use of EoS/FoS outside Delirium, but make sure you keep Darkside up.
Maximize the use of EoS/FoS inside Delirium to increase the bloodgauge.
Use the bloodgauge specifically to use the Bloodspiller combo as many times as possible under Living Shadow.
Play around with TBN's Dark Arts!
More GCDs.
Merge similar defensive CDs for easier weaving of defenses, add identity in the defensive / utility kit, solidify dungeon sustain.
Add more intensity to downtime periods: C&S being 20 seconds and managing Darkside more carefully.
Distance DRK's gameplay from WAR.

[Zairava]

snippy

I've already made my response over in the DRK Megathread, which you can find by following this (or just going to the thread itself):

Alakablam

I would be open to discussing it here, but we should probably keep the lengthy DRK discussions in the Megathread

[Kranel_San]

I thought this is a FFXIV Job Design feedback thread, not off topic gaming thread...

[RitsukoSonoda]

I thought this is a FFXIV Job Design feedback thread, not off topic gaming thread...

Since when do we every stay on topic on this forum?

[CelestiCer]

I thought this is a FFXIV Job Design feedback thread, not off topic gaming thread...

Comparing XIV's Job Design to other games provides different perspectives other then just XIV that could help discussions.

XIV's Job Design to me is summarized as becoming " Lazier/Emptier/Scripted ". Making Jobs easier to manage sounds like a big win for Square regarding the work-load for the Dev's while pursuing unobtainable perfect balance, regardless at the cost of gameplay.

Is Job Design still good? It's Good Enough to get players to Subscribe.

Shoving another Job choice into a Players face ( often suggested... ) is a terrible solution. Players like x Job and should be granted optional depth/complexity/nuances to allow players to express mastery of the Jobs they love in any content they wish to do it in, " Not just Ultimate ". Taking that away? is akin to stomping the passion out of players who grew fond of the Jobs... This can be done without raising the skill-floor. And raising the skill-ceiling would not deter away hardcore Raiders, they'll more likely welcome the challenge to master it.

Job Design can be tweaked slightly to be 2x as Fun, with having the exact same skill requirement of the now. Square shown they can do this, but the focus obviously isn't about quality Job Design or Job gameplay here, it's about Balance and Content. Hence their stance on " Just go play Ultimate ". Square obviously seems to think it's all about the content they think you will enjoy, disregarding what Jobs you enjoy playing content with.

• Make the Jobs more Fun? and Combat content becomes more Fun to do
• Make the Jobs more Boring? at some point Combat Content becomes unappealing to do

Wishful thinking with the supposedly x amount of years of XIV to come that Square will give us something that improves Job design, gameplay and providing Job depth. Wouldn't hold my breath though. DRG and AST players are up next right? and if they weren't hoping for a SMN rework... here's to hoping

[ForsakenRoe]

Shoving another Job choice into a Players face ( often suggested... ) is a terrible solution. Players like x Job and should be granted optional depth/complexity/nuances to allow players to express mastery of the Jobs they love in any content they wish to do it in, " Not just Ultimate ". Taking that away? is akin to stomping the passion out of players who grew fond of the Jobs... This can be done without raising the skill-floor. And raising the skill-ceiling would not deter away hardcore Raiders, they'll more likely welcome the challenge to master it.

Said it many times, with comparisons to hot wings, curry, FPS games, all sorts. If I like Chicken, but can't handle spicy food so well, I don't get told 'sorry we only do chicken vindaloo', there is chicken korma, chicken tikka masala, chicken madras too, a spectrum of spice levels. Similarly, if I like the Sci-Fi aesthetic of Halo, but I find Easy to be, well, too easy, then I can ramp up to Normal, Hard, Legendary, whatever they call the hardest difficulty. The suggestion that 'oh you don't like Chicken Vindaloo? Too spicy? Well you can have Lamb Kofta instead, maybe that's your speed'. Yeh and maybe I don't like Lamb (I personally do, it's example). Or for the FPS example, someone getting told 'oh Halo's too easy for you? Go try COD or Battlefield then', well maybe said person doesn't like how everything in COD is so aggressively brown-filtered colorwise, or how it's too realistic and they like the futuristic stuff like energy swords and flying motorbikes.

I play SGE because I like the aesthetic. I shouldn't be told 'oh you find SGE easy? Well go and play SCH and fight the fairy clunk then, that'll give you some challenge' because I don't like the SCH aesthetic as much. Both classes should have a skill ceiling to strive for, and a skill floor that keeps them accessible to newcomers. And the worst offender is when people suggest something of a different role entirely. 'Oh you don't like X healer, well go and play DPS if you want to do damage' is the equivalent of saying 'Oh you don't like the mobility people have in Apex Legends? Well go and play turn based RPGs then' instead of suggesting a more grounded BR like PUBG

[ty_taurus]

I still get new answers little by little from new eyes checking out the thread, so doesn't really bother me if it runs off topic.